Big J on radio 4..

[ESS]

1 minute ago, Big J said:

Fair enough, and I'm happy for them.

 

I nevertheless feel that the current planning regs are not fit for purpose as regards to rural workers and others might well be managing, but it's as much because they just don't have a choice. 

They have plenty of choices. So do you.

 

[Big J]

2 minutes ago, ESS said:

They have plenty of choices. So do you.

 

No, we have absolutely no choice. You are (respectfully) mistaken. 

 

If you wish to check, go on Rightmove and find me a house within a 5 mile radius of Uffculme suitable for a family of 4 (with a spare bedroom, as the grandparents come to stay frequently) with outbuildings or land to build barns. Try and find one for less than £600k....

[monkeybusiness]

25 minutes ago, Big J said:

No, we have absolutely no choice. You are (respectfully) mistaken. 

 

If you wish to check, go on Rightmove and find me a house within a 5 mile radius of Uffculme suitable for a family of 4 (with a spare bedroom, as the grandparents come to stay frequently) with outbuildings or land to build barns. Try and find one for less than £600k....

You don’t NEED to live there though as far as I can see? You just want to. There are plenty of other options within budget surely. 

[Big J]

4 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

You don’t NEED to live there though as far as I can see? You just want to. There are plenty of other options within budget surely. 

We are here now. Business established, kids settled, brother 15 minutes down the road, life made. Our goal in life isn't the attainment of a comfortable family house and space to run a business from. It's to have a happy life, and the aforementioned housing makes that easier. 

 

2.5 acres per man woman and child in Devon. That is worth remembering. There is no shortage of space, just a shortage of desire to charge archaic and discriminatory planning laws.

[LeeGray]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

Fair enough. If I did grant fund something like a harvester, the vast bulk of the value of my machines would still be privately funded by me. Yes the work would be done by someone else, of course, but that's always going to be the case in any industry. 

 

I'd argue it would be much better value than leaving people on benefits, as as well as the direct employment, the supply chain benefits are extensive, and for a circa £10k/yr grant funding requirement (if you divided the £60k over the 6 year period that I believe that you need to keep the machine for), the revenue benefit in income tax throughout the supply chain would exceed that . 

 

I'm sure some farm subsidies do go towards jobs, but those subsidies that effectively pay farmers not to farm are clearly not included in this.

Farmers aren’t paid not to farm, the opposite is true. In order to claim any subsidy the farm must be in agriculture order. This is a fact. 

[monkeybusiness]

Just now, Big J said:

We are here now. Business established, kids settled, brother 15 minutes down the road, life made. Our goal in life isn't the attainment of a comfortable family house and space to run a business from. It's to have a happy life, and the aforementioned housing makes that easier. 

 

2.5 acres per man woman and child in Devon. That is worth remembering. There is no shortage of space, just a shortage of desire to charge archaic and discriminatory planning laws.

I admire you BigJ and reckon we’d probably get along in person, but that is a terrible position to take IMO. 

 

I might as well move to Chelsea, rent a room, bung my sprogs in school, flog a few copies of the Big Issue and claim the same!

 

Surely I should be able to build a warehouse to store my magazines in and build a house on the same piece of land bought at agricultural rates (crap ground for growing anything on along the banks of the Thames so 3-4k an acre seems fair - it can’t be worth any more than that otherwise people would have unfairly benefited from planning legislation?).

 

I really don’t think you’re argument stacks up I’m afraid. 

[Big J]

3 minutes ago, LeeGray said:

Farmers aren’t paid not to farm, the opposite is true. In order to claim any subsidy the farm must be in agriculture order. This is a fact. 

The landowner adjacent to our site has 180 acres and I was simply quoting him when he said "we're paid not to farm"

[Big J]

8 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

I admire you BigJ and reckon we’d probably get along in person, but that is a terrible position to take IMO. 

 

I might as well move to Chelsea, rent a room, bung my sprogs in school, flog a few copies of the Big Issue and claim the same!

 

Surely I should be able to build a warehouse to store my magazines in and build a house on the same piece of land bought at agricultural rates (crap ground for growing anything on along the banks of the Thames so 3-4k an acre seems fair - it can’t be worth any more than that otherwise people would have unfairly benefited from planning legislation?).

 

I really don’t think you’re argument stacks up I’m afraid. 

I don't think that the analogy works, but I appreciate your point. 

 

Fact is, we build the worst houses in Western Europe, they cost more than almost anywhere else, we don't make provision for small businesses as we should and our planning laws are a joke. I'm not asking for special treatment, just the right to own the site that I conduct my business from to give us long term security and to minimise costs. I can't buy agricultural commercial property any more because it doesn't exist on account of Class Q. Industrial yards are few and far between and rarely suitable for forestry businesses. Houses with existing barns are too expensive (subjectively, objectively and materially). Renting has no long term security and it's extremely expensive to move (I once worked out that moving my sawmill business premises would cost me £28k). Renting is also contributing to someone elses wealth and is money down the drain. 

 

In an effort to sort of conclude this discussion (because it's not going anywhere), my wife and I were chatting about it again today and we need to have a longer chat with the planners when we don't have the 2 year old present. I shall report back.

 

Edit:  I should add that I would be able to cite precedent in two cases, local to us, where something almost exactly like what we're striving to has been built without planning, but it was granted retrospectively

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Big J

[John Shutler]

56 minutes ago, Big J said:

No, we have absolutely no choice. You are (respectfully) mistaken. 

 

If you wish to check, go on Rightmove and find me a house within a 5 mile radius of Uffculme suitable for a family of 4 (with a spare bedroom, as the grandparents come to stay frequently) with outbuildings or land to build barns. Try and find one for less than £600k....

there are several properties on right move under 600K with 4/5 bedrooms and a bit of land, one of them with an AOC

Id wager that none would be suitable for your needs, poor design blah blah blah......

The long and short of it, is your pissed that planning doesn't meet your own exacting standards

You've moved into an area, made little effort to integrate or engraciate yourself with local people and are feeling hard done by that people don't give you cheap yard rent

I live on a smallholding, my yard (which is reasonable rent) is 5 mins drive from my house and I've got the space to bring tractors and trailers home with me when needed. I certainly don't waste much energy on wishing that I had my whole setup at home, and to be honest I would want to put my neighbours through having to live next to a contractors yard

[Big J]

1 minute ago, John Shutler said:

 

You've moved into an area, made little effort to integrate or engraciate yourself with local people and are feeling hard done by that people don't give you cheap yard rent

That's nonsense and you have absolutely no basis on which to make that statement.