Big J on radio 4..

[Conor Wright]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

Haha! Mentioning my wife being an architect was pertinent to the topic in question! 

 

Quite nerve racking to be honest, and I wonder how many folk have contributed to the programme over the years whilst sat in a forwarder.

 

What serves to reinforce my point (I feel) is that from my high vantage point in the valley, almost all the land I could see is owned by about 6 people, and provision for people like us trying to find rural property from which to run a business and in which to live is almost non existent. There is a nice enough 4 bed house over the hill with small outbuildings and 3 acres of land, but that's £650k. Loopy money!

For what it's worth, I think you came across well, didn't sound nervous.. I was listening on low volume though, expecting a saw to start up beside you at any second!

As regards property prices, that sounds stupid high for "average" quality housing ie. Nothing spectacular or above modern living standards. Hopefully you will manage to find somewhere to build. Seems like a more sensible long term solution than buying to me..(taking into consideration what I've read on here, I'm far from familiar with the uk property market) but don't take my word for it. I'm still living in a mobile home! The thought of a 500k+ mortgage makes me shudder..

[monkeybusiness]

Devil’s advocate - why did you move to Devon?

From previous posts it seems you didn’t go there from a business-plan point of view as you said you expected to be working away back in Scotland some of the time.

Hats off to you for making it work from a forestry business perspective, but I’m not sure moving through choice to somewhere with crazy house prices (as a result of supply/demand) gives you any sort of moral high ground to subsequently moan about house/land prices. There are loads of places on this island that you could live for a lot less money (anywhere in Scotland for a start) - surely the issue lies with schooling above anything else from your radio interview? 

[devon TWiG]

Houses in Devon are so expensive because it is time consuming getting all the materials down small lanes !!?... NIMBYism has not helped also rules and regs of buildings , badgers , bats , rare orchids , newts etc etc ...J  you are in a cheap part of Devon !!   look at waterfront properties !!!  Sidmouth , Salcombe etc ?

[Big J]

36 minutes ago, Conor Wright said:

For what it's worth, I think you came across well, didn't sound nervous.. I was listening on low volume though, expecting a saw to start up beside you at any second!

As regards property prices, that sounds stupid high for "average" quality housing ie. Nothing spectacular or above modern living standards. Hopefully you will manage to find somewhere to build. Seems like a more sensible long term solution than buying to me..(taking into consideration what I've read on here, I'm far from familiar with the uk property market) but don't take my word for it. I'm still living in a mobile home! The thought of a 500k+ mortgage makes me shudder..

Thanks Conor. I was pretty nervous, especially as you get all of two seconds notice as to when you're on. You just listen in on the phone (I was on a bluetooth headset so I could hear better), with one of the producers checking a few minutes before that you're still there and that the sound quality is OK. And then they just say your name and you're on...

 

The aforementioned £650k house was a fairly new chalet style 4 bed. Spacious for a 4 bed, but cheap construction. 3 acres of land, some outbuildings and 1/2 a mile outside Tiverton. 4 bed houses in villages generally start at about £400k, but that's with scarcely enough parking for two cars, let alone vans and trailers. Minimal gardens too. £500k is about the start point for houses with sufficient land to construct a barn large enough to house a few machines.

 

18 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

Devil’s advocate - why did you move to Devon?

From previous posts it seems you didn’t go there from a business-plan point of view as you said you expected to be working away back in Scotland some of the time.

Hats off to you for making it work from a forestry business perspective, but I’m not sure moving through choice to somewhere with crazy house prices (as a result of supply/demand) gives you any sort of moral high ground to subsequently moan about house/land prices. There are loads of places on this island that you could live for a lot less money (anywhere in Scotland for a start) - surely the issue lies with schooling above anything else from your radio interview? 

 

Fair point, and I always love any debate that starts with the term "devil's advocate"!

 

The working in Scotland plan was only ever meant to be transitional, whilst I built up contacts and work down here. That happened much more quickly than expected, so I only ever went back once for work. We moved here because my brother is 15 minutes away (as opposed to 8-10hrs), my wife's extended family is around Taunton (30 minutes away) and it's much easier and closer for my mum and Kathryn's parents to visit. The kids see so much more of their family now, which isn't something they've regularly had. The climate makes for a much more pleasant lifestyle, with indirect benefits, in that I feel that people are more sociable and better connected because of the regular chances to see each other at outdoor events and shindigs throughout summer. My wife has remarked that she's made more friends through school and the nursery in a few short months than she did in 4 years of having children near Edinburgh. 

 

I appreciate that Devon (especially this part) is quite expensive, but Edinburgh and the surrounding area is hardly any better. True, elsewhere in Scotland or the North of the UK would have been cheaper, but it is (in my opinion) a pretty miserable existence if you move somewhere simply because the housing is cheap. 

 

Schooling is certainly a consideration, but it has a fairly minimal effect on the house prices in this area. True, my daughter is in a primary school that feeds a very good secondary school, but the desire to move into that area (which is about 150 square kilometres) is more so that we don't disrupt her schooling. I moved schools a few times as a child and it was pretty awful. 

 

As I've said before, the issue isn't lack of land, it's planning. Why permit millionaire incomers (I use that term non-pejoratively) to purchase barns to convert to swanky countryside pads but prohibit rural businesses from self building modest accommodation and premises in order to more effecienty run a sustainable business in the area? I'm not saying that out of a sense of entitlement, more to simply highlight that planning seeking to meet subjective demand, rather than objective need.

[Big J]

7 minutes ago, devon TWiG said:

Houses in Devon are so expensive because it is time consuming getting all the materials down small lanes !!?... NIMBYism has not helped also rules and regs of buildings , badgers , bats , rare orchids , newts etc etc ...J  you are in a cheap part of Devon !!   look at waterfront properties !!!  Sidmouth , Salcombe etc ?

True enough - silly money there! 

 

I have had a few conversations with exasperated landowners over the past year and the levels of NIMBYism are in parts staggering. A woodland shack (no larger than 3x4m) was objected to by a neighbouring woodland owner as it wasn't in keeping with the woodland. A track installed (and a very lovely one too) at the bottom of a steeply sloping field was objected to by an anonymous member of the public who reported the farmer to the CAP payment folk for no clearly determinable reason. The field was so steep that it would have only been comfortable to walk (and there was a permitted footpath there, no right of way) if one of your legs was 6 inches longer than the other.

 

Live and let live I say, within reason.

[devon TWiG]

Sadly because some have paid through the nose for their property they will do absolutely anything to protect  or enhance that value .....not wanting development nearby ....fighting and overcoming endless objections is time consuming and costly therefore makes just the plot very expensive to start with , look in Exmoor and Dartmoor national parks !!! I fully comprehend your statement about being enslaved for decades to pay for what is essentially somewhere to live !!  not a good way to spend your life !!  then when it is finally paid off you are either worn out or die !!  cant really see any answer to it really ....

[Big J]

9 minutes ago, devon TWiG said:

Sadly because some have paid through the nose for their property they will do absolutely anything to protect  or enhance that value .....not wanting development nearby ....fighting and overcoming endless objections is time consuming and costly therefore makes just the plot very expensive to start with , look in Exmoor and Dartmoor national parks !!! I fully comprehend your statement about being enslaved for decades to pay for what is essentially somewhere to live !!  not a good way to spend your life !!  then when it is finally paid off you are either worn out or die !!  cant really see any answer to it really ....

I agree. It's an almost unfixable situation, with the inevitable consequence of someone having to take a hit on the value of what they have. Devon is, I'd say, still relatively cheap for the south of the UK and the market value of houses is often well in excess of double the material value. This is why house developers operate on an almost 50% margin. With that disparity in values, the first time buyer comes off worst, with developers, banks and to a lesser extent, existing home owners benefitting. 

 

Friends of ours had to work very hard over the past year winning over the Parish council in the village they live in near Honiton. They bought a large property, with lots of potential and are pursuing an ambitious sustainable rural business model, including a farm shop, cafe, guided tours and activity days in their vineyard and orchard, glamping and many other things. It'll bring lots of tourist money into the village, employing local people and will be a great thing. The Parish council seem to be onboard, and planning is OK too, but it's taken a lot of work.

[carlos]

id like to see councils and planners promote small rural plots sub half acre for small single story timber framed homes that are modest in  there design and cost , and banks that would be willing to lend on these sort of projects.

i get bored of all these million square foot " ECO" mansions!! a mansion is not eco in my book no matter how many solar panel are on the roof.

high house prices tend to push up rental prices too, so then you cant save for a deposit.

 

[Big J]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

id like to see councils and planners promote small rural plots sub half acre for small single story timber framed homes that are modest in  there design and cost , and banks that would be willing to lend on these sort of projects.

i get bored of all these million square foot " ECO" mansions!! a mansion is not eco in my book no matter how many solar panel are on the roof.

high house prices tend to push up rental prices too, so then you cant save for a deposit.

 

Agreed. 

 

Making provision for people to build their own houses sustainably should be the central tenet of planning, rather than pandering to the mass developers. 

 

As everyone knows, I'm a massive Germany fanboy, but I can only reflect on what I know. It's common practice for councils to have a Neubaugebiet (new building area) in villages and towns. Land is prepared, road and services go in, plots divided up at 400-1000 square metres, sold for a reasonable price. Simples. Everyone has space to breath, noone is mortgaged up to the hilt unless they build something outrageous and people can build a house that is suited to them, rather than suited to a developers programme of profit maximisation. 

 

I'm on my bloody soapbox again - see what you did?!

 

Example plot, close to my uncles: 

 

# # # Top Grundstück- ebenerdig # # # Grundstück Morbach-Hoxel (2N7394S)

WWW.IMMOWELT.DE

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1071 m² Grundstück in Morbach, Hunsrück zum Kauf. # # # Top Grundstück- ebenerdig # # #. Angeboten von VR-Bank Hunsrück-Mosel eG Immobilienabteilung, - -.

£34k, quarter of an acre, level, fulled serviced. 

 

Example plot, close to us here in Devon:

 

Plot with PP for sale in Whimple | Plotfinder

WWW.PLOTFINDER.NET

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An excellent individual building plot of approx 0.22 acres with planning consent granted for a superb, single architect designed dwelling.

Just under 1/4 acre, level, no mention of services, £250k

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Big J

[LeeGray]

Much more reasonable and would certainly help ease the housing problem in the uk but it would take more than the council. Just putting services in would cost more than that in the uk for rural or semi rural plots. The network owners would have to have a bit of pressure put on them to get infrastructure at reasonable rates, which would increase costs for all bill payers, as we know the fat cats won’t take a cut in divies and the market needs good returns on investment.