Whaley Bridge Evacuated

[eggsarascal]

23 minutes ago, Paul Cleaver said:

Fingers crossed for The Whaley folk this coming week - heavy showers forecast  

This should install some confidence.

 

Toddbrook Reservoir update | Canal & River Trust

CANALRIVERTRUST.ORG.UK

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Following the heavy rainfall which has caused widespread problems across the North West, we’re currently working...

 

[Woodlover]

Some interesting pics.

[AHPP]

Derbyshire man refuses to leave town facing flood disaster saying it's 'fuss about nothing' and 'health and safety gone mad'
 
Would of loved to see this guy around during Pompeii.
 
Also not sure the woman who says that if the dam does burst she'll just walk up the hill quite understands how 1.3m m3 of water works.

Out of interest, does anyone happen to know what power the police have to force people to move out?

[eggsarascal]

29 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

Out of interest, does anyone happen to know what power the police have to force people to move out?

 

No, I'd guess none whatsoever. Again a guess, the police could only advise what they thought was for the best.

[openspaceman]

14 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

No, I'd guess none whatsoever. Again a guess, the police could only advise what they thought was for the best.

Civil Contingencies Act 2004, but I don't know who has authority to  call it and doubt very much it has been used in this case.

 

IMO a lot of the more recent acts are poor when compared with those from previous ages and this and the highways act come into that category, not to mention dangerous dogs act and Hunting act

[AHPP]

Civil Contingencies Act 2004, but I don't know who has authority to  call it and doubt very much it has been used in this case.

 

IMO a lot of the more recent acts are poor when compared with those from previous ages and this and the highways act come into that category, not to mention dangerous dogs act and Hunting act

Section 20 of that act allows for emergency regulations to be made by government ministers, such a regulation potentially being one that grants extra police powers. Like you say, I doubt it though. Bit tenuous.

There may well be some provision in one of the Criminal Justice, Public Order or one of the ... (Miscellaneous Privisons) Acts for it. Or, like egg says, maybe there isn’t.

[Chalgravesteve]

The problem was that the spillway/overflow is what is designed to ensure the reservoir doesn't get too full. Excess water just flows over the top and away, maintaining a consistent full level. Two things occurred which were not anticipated:

One, the massive volume of water incoming into the reservoir in such a short period of time through the massive rainfall, and Two, the damage/erosion of the spillway when One occurred. Moving water is incredibly powerful. The 1.3m m3 of water weighs 1.3m tonnes, but when its contained in its reservoir, it exerts an equal and relatively low pressure on the sides of the reservoir. 

 

However, once that water starts moving, in one place, absolutely nothing is going to stop it and the forces involved are immense. The spillway looks as though there is a void underneath the concrete ramp. Once the water started to get into the void, it will have washed more soil away until the sections collapsed. The water wold then just tear the whole thing apart, unless they can reduce the levels down so that it cannot overflow the spillway.

 

Those bloody stupid people refusing to leave, don't have to run up the nearest hill to get out of the way, the water probably won't kill them, it will be the hundreds and thousands of tones of debris that will be swept along with it that will batter them into a pulp. Its fine, if they want to kill themselves, so be it, but the emergency services cannot just up and leave so they have to stay there as well. Realistically, its probably safe now, they have dropped the level way below the spillway BUT they cannot be sure about what else has gone on underneath the bit that's still in place.

 

There was another reservoir problem a few years ago, where a fallen tree partially blocked the spillway and more debris got caught on the tree until the flowing water was forced out and over the edges of the spillway where it just eroded the soil banks in no time.

 

No easy solution, you cannot just release millions of gallons downstream in an uncontrolled way as the downstream routes simply cannot deal with the volumes and you breach banks downstream and flood out other communities. 

[eggsarascal]

4 hours ago, Chalgravesteve said:

The problem was that the spillway/overflow is what is designed to ensure the reservoir doesn't get too full. Excess water just flows over the top and away, maintaining a consistent full level. Two things occurred which were not anticipated:

One, the massive volume of water incoming into the reservoir in such a short period of time through the massive rainfall, and Two, the damage/erosion of the spillway when One occurred. Moving water is incredibly powerful. The 1.3m m3 of water weighs 1.3m tonnes, but when its contained in its reservoir, it exerts an equal and relatively low pressure on the sides of the reservoir. 

 

However, once that water starts moving, in one place, absolutely nothing is going to stop it and the forces involved are immense. The spillway looks as though there is a void underneath the concrete ramp. Once the water started to get into the void, it will have washed more soil away until the sections collapsed. The water wold then just tear the whole thing apart, unless they can reduce the levels down so that it cannot overflow the spillway.

 

Those bloody stupid people refusing to leave, don't have to run up the nearest hill to get out of the way, the water probably won't kill them, it will be the hundreds and thousands of tones of debris that will be swept along with it that will batter them into a pulp. Its fine, if they want to kill themselves, so be it, but the emergency services cannot just up and leave so they have to stay there as well. Realistically, its probably safe now, they have dropped the level way below the spillway BUT they cannot be sure about what else has gone on underneath the bit that's still in place.

 

There was another reservoir problem a few years ago, where a fallen tree partially blocked the spillway and more debris got caught on the tree until the flowing water was forced out and over the edges of the spillway where it just eroded the soil banks in no time.

 

No easy solution, you cannot just release millions of gallons downstream in an uncontrolled way as the downstream routes simply cannot deal with the volumes and you breach banks downstream and flood out other communities. 

I'm afraid this is nonsense, back in the day when there were local  lengths men the inlet to the res would have been diverted directly to the cut feeder, locks opened and boat movements restricted/stopped. The reason the damn was breached in such a way is CaRT were slow to react. Don't believe the crap that CaRT are trying to lead people believe. A mate of mine has put in a FOI request. I'll update when he gets a reply.

[Paul Cleaver]

4 hours ago, Chalgravesteve said:

The problem was that the spillway/overflow is what is designed to ensure the reservoir doesn't get too full. Excess water just flows over the top and away, maintaining a consistent full level. Two things occurred which were not anticipated:

One, the massive volume of water incoming into the reservoir in such a short period of time through the massive rainfall, and Two, the damage/erosion of the spillway when One occurred. Moving water is incredibly powerful. The 1.3m m3 of water weighs 1.3m tonnes, but when its contained in its reservoir, it exerts an equal and relatively low pressure on the sides of the reservoir. 

 

However, once that water starts moving, in one place, absolutely nothing is going to stop it and the forces involved are immense. The spillway looks as though there is a void underneath the concrete ramp. Once the water started to get into the void, it will have washed more soil away until the sections collapsed. The water wold then just tear the whole thing apart, unless they can reduce the levels down so that it cannot overflow the spillway.

 

Those bloody stupid people refusing to leave, don't have to run up the nearest hill to get out of the way, the water probably won't kill them, it will be the hundreds and thousands of tones of debris that will be swept along with it that will batter them into a pulp. Its fine, if they want to kill themselves, so be it, but the emergency services cannot just up and leave so they have to stay there as well. Realistically, its probably safe now, they have dropped the level way below the spillway BUT they cannot be sure about what else has gone on underneath the bit that's still in place.

 

There was another reservoir problem a few years ago, where a fallen tree partially blocked the spillway and more debris got caught on the tree until the flowing water was forced out and over the edges of the spillway where it just eroded the soil banks in no time.

 

No easy solution, you cannot just release millions of gallons downstream in an uncontrolled way as the downstream routes simply cannot deal with the volumes and you breach banks downstream and flood out other communities. 

good read - I wonder if they have some kind of geofiz powerful enough  that  it can penetrate all the supportive layers to see any underlying damage

[eggsarascal]

Google the name Duncan Fife if you want it from the horses mouth.

 

The rain played a part but lack of maintenance is the underlying problem.

Edited August 5, 2019 by eggsarascal