Climate change anyone?

[openspaceman]

5 hours ago, Haironyourchest said:

Just read this piece by George Monibot. He finally lays the agenda on the table: "To stop global warming we must stop economic growth." In short, they are agitating for communism.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/26/economic-growth-fossil-fuels-habit-oil-industry?CMP=share_btn_tw

I think you have cause and effect wrong, yes communism has the effect of economic decline but that's not the same as  understanding that the results of no limits to growth is increased pollution and excessive carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

[Haironyourchest]

26 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

I think you have cause and effect wrong, yes communism has the effect of economic decline but that's not the same as  understanding that the results of no limits to growth is increased pollution and excessive carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Did you read the article? He's essentially arguing for a government controlled economic model - ie. Socialism (Communism), same as Alexandria Occasio Cortez.

[openspaceman]

20 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Did you read the article? He's essentially arguing for a government controlled economic model - ie. Socialism (Communism), same as Alexandria Occasio Cortez.

No I was commenting on your summary.

[the village idiot]

16 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Did you read the article? He's essentially arguing for a government controlled economic model - ie. Socialism (Communism), same as Alexandria Occasio Cortez.

We already have a government controlled economic model.

 

What Monbiot is saying is that we urgently need to alter it.

 

“our current economic model is threatening the foundations on which human wellbeing depends”

 

To keep global temperature rise below a catastrophic limit we need 'rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society'

 

This needs to come from government as we are too far down the line to wait for people to make individual choices.

 

The message that we have to change radically does not go down well with us so we tend to just ignore it.

 

 

 

[Haironyourchest]

1 hour ago, the village idiot said:

We already have a government controlled economic model.

 

What Monbiot is saying is that we urgently need to alter it.

 

“our current economic model is threatening the foundations on which human wellbeing depends”

 

To keep global temperature rise below a catastrophic limit we need 'rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society'

 

This needs to come from government as we are too far down the line to wait for people to make individual choices.

 

The message that we have to change radically does not go down well with us so we tend to just ignore it.

 

 

 

Yes, indeed that's the salient paragraph. So, I read this as government control over the economy. To paraphrase "The people won't change vouluntarily, so we will force them to change". This is communism. Rationing. No travel without a permit. The end of growth, private enterprise, personal wealth etc. Do you read it differently?

[the village idiot]

9 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Yes, indeed that's the salient paragraph. So, I read this as government control over the economy. To paraphrase "The people won't change vouluntarily, so we will force them to change". This is communism. Rationing. No travel without a permit. The end of growth, private enterprise, personal wealth etc. Do you read it differently?

I believe we would need something akin to what you are describing but wouldn't put it quite so starkly.

 

I don't think we would see the end of growth (there are many ways to grow, GDP would admittedly take a hammering). I dont think it would be the end of private enterprise or personal wealth either. We need to do things differently, but there would still be plenty of 'winners' financially.

 

It's not just climate change either. The rising global temperature along with the impending AI/automation explosion will mean that the standard capitalist model simply won't work.

 

Something like Universal Basic Income will become a necessity, and we will need to find other avenues than wealth accumulation to give us our sense of purpose.

 

There are real opportunities here amongst all the gloom, we just have to start thinking a bit differently and more deeply about what really matters.

[difflock]

 

[difflock]

 

[Woodworks]

9 hours ago, difflock said:

 

Love the dumb newsreader who never knew CO2 levels had been high in the past. No doubt levels have changed over millennia but it's the speed of change which does not allow species to evolve or adapt. Combine this with how we have harmed the environment in other ways it does not give many species much chance hence we have so many extinctions taking place now. 

 

 Not sure what the point of posting the video is. The scientist agrees with the "good scientists" who measure data that must include our current period of rapid warming which we are having without any other natural catastrophic events (volcanoes, meteorites) other than us. If that's all Fox News can find in the deniers camp you have to presume global warming is worse than thought.

[difflock]

The single line of text appearing in your quote, is my exact point, other than that I have zero time for Fox's so-called news, they really  should stick to making peppermint sweets.

Like the breast-beating bereavement "cult" after Princess Diana's death, and indeed perhaps the hysteria after Madaline McCann's disappearance/death.

And other such media-fostered over-reactions.

When, in the best Fascist fashion, any voices daring to dissent are stridently/hysterically suppressed.