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Isa Certification vs level 4 Arboriculture

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2 hours ago, EdwardC said:

Care to explain why Paul. I'd be interested to know if there's a reason, other than your undeclared interest in promoting the ISA qualifications.

Edward, an interesting supposition, albeit incorrectly so.

 

I speak as someone who personally greatly benefitted from working my way through the study guide early in my career which significantly increased my very limited  'arb' technical knowledge, as it was at the time.

Further, I recently attended an associated training course delivered by Andy Summerly (Treelife) and observed the benefits to those attending, both tree surgeons / arborist and supervisors / managers who had no prior arb quals (and indeed myself as a refresher.)

 

I stick by my guns here Edward that, at the craftsman level, ISA CA is a great learning program to supplement the suite of chainsaw / tree climbing qualifications (L4 & L6 are equally great learning opportunities, but for later ones career maybe when / if one wishes to progress to Tree Officer or Arb Advisor / Surveyor role etc.)

 

Regards,

Paul   

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11 hours ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

Edward, an interesting supposition, albeit incorrectly so.

 

I speak as someone who personally greatly benefitted from working my way through the study guide early in my career which significantly increased my very limited  'arb' technical knowledge, as it was at the time.

Further, I recently attended an associated training course delivered by Andy Summerly (Treelife) and observed the benefits to those attending, both tree surgeons / arborist and supervisors / managers who had no prior arb quals (and indeed myself as a refresher.)

 

I stick by my guns here Edward that, at the craftsman level, ISA CA is a great learning program to supplement the suite of chainsaw / tree climbing qualifications (L4 & L6 are equally great learning opportunities, but for later ones career maybe when / if one wishes to progress to Tree Officer or Arb Advisor / Surveyor role etc.)

 

Regards,

 

I'm sure your role at the, AA which includes promoting education, is an interesting and rewarding one. I'm also sure that the AA course facilitated by Treelife, at a cost of just over £1000.00 to members and just under £1,300.00, payable to the AA , is excellent. 

 

I'm happy to defer to your view that the ISA certification is a good supplement to other qualifications at craft level.

 

However, the question was about which is best, ISA or level 4 for career progression, for new ventures, by someone already at craft level.

 

Level 4 is supported by a recognised awarding body. ISA certification isn't.

 

Level 4 sits on the Qualification Credit Framework, ISA certification doesn't.

 

Level 4 leads seamlessly into the Level 6 Professional Diploma, the arb industries premier qualification, the ISA certification doesn't.

 

The level 4 and 6 relate to arboricultral in the UK, the ISA certification doesn't, it relates primarily to the USA.

 

Level 4 and 6 qualifications are the ones recognised and demanded by UK employers, the ISA certification isn't.

 

All education is beneficial, and it can be expensive. But if you want to progress your arboricultral career beyond craft then you need to go down the route that will most likely yield the result you want, even if it is more expensive. Better off spending your money on something relevant to employers, than saving money on something that isn't.

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Edward, thank you for your reply here and you are quite right I have deviated from the OP point about ISA CA 'v' L4, which are essentially 2 quite different learning opportunities and in the OP's case clearly L4 would be the better / more suitable one.

 

However, if I may, regarding the cost of the ISA CA 'facilitated training' between the AA and Treelife it is as follows:

 

1. AA Member £840.00* +VAT (for x6 sessions = £140.00 (+VAT) per session)

2. Non-AA Member £1,080.00\\8 +VAT (for x6 sessions = £180 (+VAT) per session)

*includes the ISA CA study guide which is £75.00

 

To conclude, at the craftsman level, the ISA CA would be relevant to employers I would suggest.

 

Regards,

Paul  

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On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 08:04, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

"...but I'm not convinced about the content"

 

Hi Chris, can you expand please...is it because it's American based? (in reality probably less than 10% I would suggest and the rest is common, USA / UK / EU...oops :D.)

 

I truly believe the ISA CA is an ideal educational supplement for craftsman arb level where some has attained their practical skills quals, e.g. Lantra or NPTC chainsaws / tree climbing, to give a better understanding of trees and their requirements etc.

 

Cheers,

Paul  

Hi Paul

 

Just to clarify, I am not slating the ISA, its just that once I finished Tech Cert, I stopped doing the CEUs as I felt I had massively superseded it.  The OP is asking about new ventures and so I assumed this would be surveying and leading into consultancy.  The L4 would set him up for this, but the ISA will not in my opinion.  

 

I think the ISA is useful for someone working as a tree surgeon that has only the CS units but this chap has an L3 qualification already and so he is going to already know about target pruning, soils, anatomy and all the other stuff that is contained within the ISA, or at least you would hope.  The L4 will move him onto issues such as fungal colonisation strategies, BS5837, mortgage reports, etc.  These are not covered by the L3 he has or the ISA realistically and so I think that would be more benefit to his new ventures. 

 

I remember doing a CEU on the bulk flow mechanism, probably about 15 years ago now.  It was interesting but I can't say that I have ever used that knowledge as either a tree surgeon, TO or consultant.  I think there are better examples of CPD out there, including the many excellent courses that are run by the AA.    

 

As for job opportunities, the L4 would probably get him an interview for a surveyors job, or junior TO but the ISA almost certainly won't.  The ISA will carry some weight with employers for tree surgeon jobs but they will be more focussed on CS units in my experience, and he already has this covered.  One thing I would say about ISA is that if you want to work abroad employers do often ask for it as an additional.   

 

If people do want to do the ISA I would personally do it on top of something such as L4.  I don't think you need to study particularly hard for the ISA.  I read the book twice and then sat the exam and passed.  This was 4 years after completing my NC so it may be more difficult if starting from scratch. 

 

Just my opinion based on my experience.  Others may differ. 

 

Cheers

          

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The ISA cert Arb is a great qualification to have, you can’t compare it to a L4, that’s like comparing an apple to a pear, the ISA route is a great qual for a small business owner or working arborist or anybody “on the tools” it’s also v cost affective and easy studying as there are no time constraints.

 

Will it get you a consultant or TO job ? No but it’s not designed to, it’s a basic working mans qual to help in everyday working arborists life and it’s far better than having nothing! I just wish I had the brains to do a L4 or 6 !

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The ISA cert Arb is a great qualification to have, you can’t compare it to a L4, that’s like comparing an apple to a pear, the ISA route is a great qual for a small business owner or working arborist or anybody “on the tools” it’s also v cost affective and easy studying as there are no time constraints.
 
Will it get you a consultant or TO job ? No but it’s not designed to, it’s a basic working mans qual to help in everyday working arborists life and it’s far better than having nothing! I just wish I had the brains to do a L4 or 6 !
You do have the brains to do it. If you have worked in arb for a good few years. You would of seen a lot of what is covered. I'm close to finishing my level 4. All I would say is the time commitment that is needed. But after the first year of lessons you have 2 years to hand in assignments. So if you are not in a rush you can still achieve the qualification. Speak to Dave Dowson or Andy summerley at tree life. They were the main authors of the new level 4 and can point you in the right direction. P.s. the level 6 has 2 years of lessons and then a further 5 years I believe.

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You do have the brains to do it. If you have worked in arb for a good few years. You would of seen a lot of what is covered. I'm close to finishing my level 4. All I would say is the time commitment that is needed. But after the first year of lessons you have 2 years to hand in assignments. So if you are not in a rush you can still achieve the qualification. Speak to Dave Dowson or Andy summerley at tree life. They were the main authors of the new level 4 and can point you in the right direction. P.s. the level 6 has 2 years of lessons and then a further 5 years I believe.




Thanks, yeah I guess I could do it just not sure I have the time and commitment at my age, also the cost is pretty big!

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Just now, Ian C said:

This is true. The cost is big and commitment. If you don't need the qualification directly you could read up on the subjects that interest you. And go on smaller 1 day courses or attend a few conferences. 

 


Thanks, yeah I guess I could do it just not sure I have the time and commitment at my age, also the cost is pretty big!

 

 

 

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On 30/05/2019 at 20:20, Ian C said:

 

 


Thanks, yeah I guess I could do it just not sure I have the time and commitment at my age, also the cost is pretty big!

 

 

I'd go for it Ian if you can make the time to attend the classroom sessions. It's a lot of work and effort but you'll learn a lot. 

 

And if I can help at all with lending reference books etc just ask. 

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