The beauty of the Tax System

[GardenKit]

I hope that all those who moan about paying tax never moan about the lack of police, deficits in the NHS, education etc etc.

 

I am very happy to pay tax, and would happily pay a little more to improve the services we rely on.

 

[eggsarascal]

13 minutes ago, GardenKit said:

I hope that all those who moan about paying tax never moan about the lack of police, deficits in the NHS, education etc etc.

 

I am very happy to pay tax, and would happily pay a little more to improve the services we rely on.

 

And neither do I mind paying tax, I hate to see it wasted mind.

[Squaredy]

2 hours ago, Rob D said:

There's a lot of extreme arguements going on here that are best seen a bit more shade of grey... I think we all know that we need to give a portion of our income as tax. We all need schools and healthcare.

 

But are there any facts and figures to show how large the gov has become year on year in terms of manpower etc? I can't find any by Google... Would it not be best to have simple plain rules that everyone understood and required less paperwork?

 

Someone said a tax on producers at source - that seems a much simpler way of calculating and gathering a VAT type tax? Then pretty much no one else has to deal with it but the producers? They already add VAT to imports - why not just leave it at that and collect that?

 

Is it just because the end price the consumer pays + vat nets more money than the import price/producer price + vat? Because that would not be worth the paperwork....... ah......... but it is if gov does not have to pay for that.

 

Got to be a simpler way of doing things. Got to be.

You are so right Rob our tax system is ludicrous.  Nonsensical.  Utterly unintelligible and so complicated even the experts often don't agree.

 

Here is my suggestion.  Scrap income tax and NI completely.  make up the shortfall by increasing VAT, but not evenly.  High value, luxury goods taxed higher with various different rates.  Maybe basic items 5% going up to expensive unnecessary luxuries 100% or even more.  I know you may not like that Rob (I also have to do regular VAT returns so I know the pain) but on the other hand think of the time it will save with PAYE and NI!  And imagine how much incentive there will be to do well for each individual to know they keep every penny they earn and they only pay tax when they buy stuff.  The only high tax payers would be high spenders - high tax payers by choice.

 

Another suggestion along very similar lines - scrap business rates.  Instead add a few percent to corporation tax to make up the loss.  Business rates are possibly the most ludicrous, unfair complicated and nonsensical tax of them all.  I am currently challenging the business rates assessment on one smallish building I occupy, and frankly it is a joke.  I was told by one solicitor who specialises in these matters that 40,000 appeals are being submitted each month currently - due to so many assessments being wrong.

 

As you say, of course we need to pay tax, but how did it ever come to this???????

[trigger_andy]

15 minutes ago, GardenKit said:

I hope that all those who moan about paying tax never moan about the lack of police, deficits in the NHS, education etc etc.

 

I am very happy to pay tax, and would happily pay a little more to improve the services we rely on.

 

I dont mind paying tax, but it should be a lot more balanced and fair. A lot of hard working people are unfairly burdened. As mentioned a Scandinavian system would be much more fair. 

 

Out of interest how much tax do you pay if you feel like you'd be happy paying more? 

[GardenKit]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

I dont mind paying tax, but it should be a lot more balanced and fair. A lot of hard working people are unfairly burdened. As mentioned a Scandinavian system would be much more fair. 

 

Out of interest how much tax do you pay if you feel like you'd be happy paying more? 

I am not a high earner, so pay tax at the standard rate. A few more quid a week would not hurt me, or many others, and if we all paid a few more quid a week there would be a lot more in the pot to run the country. The trouble is that most people demand more but want to give less. I am more than happy to pay for the services I use (or may need to one day).

OK, some of what we pay may be spent unwisely (such as funding Brussels) and that needs sorting. One of the things we can concentrate on when we are not wasting time and money on the EU. 

[trigger_andy]

5 minutes ago, GardenKit said:

I am not a high earner, so pay tax at the standard rate. A few more quid a week would not hurt me, or many others, and if we all paid a few more quid a week there would be a lot more in the pot to run the country. The trouble is that most people demand more but want to give less. I am more than happy to pay for the services I use (or may need to one day).

OK, some of what we pay may be spent unwisely (such as funding Brussels) and that needs sorting. One of the things we can concentrate on when we are not wasting time and money on the EU. 

 

I paid over £40k last year. Please ask someone else to 'pay a few more quid'. 

[westphalian]

you have to earn it to owe it squire?

[Toad]

50 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Just throw out a factoid, fwit, in the USA the wealthiest 20% of the population pay 80% of all tax. The top 1% of earners, individuals and corporations, pay 50% of all tax. Just makes one wonder about the rich paying their "fair share..."

Taking a quote from here. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/how-much-do-the-1-01-and-001-percent-really-earn/ and here https://www.thebalancecareers.com/average-salary-information-for-us-workers-2060808

 

 

The average wage for the top 1% of earners is $1.4 million, while the average wage in America is $44,564. The lowest 20% of earners average wage is less than $10,000. There is a substantial disparity between the wages of these groups.

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, westphalian said:

you have to earn it to owe it squire?

Quite, but its always people paying the minimum tax suggesting that we all pay that bit more for the services we get, or to improve them. My tax it put up every bloody year for numerous heart string tugging reasons. I dont need the suggestion of more.  

[Toad]

12 minutes ago, GardenKit said:

I am not a high earner, so pay tax at the standard rate. A few more quid a week would not hurt me, or many others, and if we all paid a few more quid a week there would be a lot more in the pot to run the country. The trouble is that most people demand more but want to give less. I am more than happy to pay for the services I use (or may need to one day).

OK, some of what we pay may be spent unwisely (such as funding Brussels) and that needs sorting. One of the things we can concentrate on when we are not wasting time and money on the EU. 

A few of us at work looked at our tax contributions to various sectors and all agreed that each sector could do with more funding. Something that came up was that a £1 contribution from all households in the county could keep the recycling centres facing closures open all year. I agree a small increase could go a long way, as could the highest earners and corporations not avoiding their moral responsibilities.

 

Funding the EU makes up about 0.7% of your total taxes.