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Entrenched Ivy on Mature ASH removal

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23 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

The priority is the continued existence of the tree, not bees, pigeons or lichen.

 

That is the only thing in the scales.

Depends. I bumped into a lichenologist in Borrowdale a while back who was leading a group of lichen enthusiasts, odd people. He pointed out to me a lichen on a tree that is only found in two places in England. Lots of ash trees in England you'd agree. So whats important. Both, but maintaining the lichens habitat needs to be a priority in this instance so ivy removal may be the thing. On the otherhand, if there was a rare insect that relied on the ivy for its survival then retaining the ivy might be the priority. If there is both a rare insect and a rare lichen then a balanced approach maybe the way. If you want a pigeon for your tea then having a habitat that provides your pigeon, and future pigeons may be a priority.

 

But you need to understand what the priorities are before you can manage them.

 

What it comes down to is having the information to make an informed decision rather than basing your decision on ignorance and past bad practice.

Edited by EdwardC

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You’re dealing in hypotheticals, imaginary rare insects and a world where future pigeon stocks from a single tree are essential to our food supply.

 

Then you finish every post with some  meaningless managerial cant aimed at impressing some imaginary examiner, bizarre.

 

Edited by Mick Dempsey
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I’ve read that ivy will live on a tree/with the tree, BUT....will kill the tree if left for long enough. Be it by breaking branches due to the weight or stopping the tree photosynthesising because it overwhelms the trees leaves 

Sod the squirrels nests and the pigeons, and as the op said plenty more on the estate.

 

cheers

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I did a day tidying windblow after a recent thinning job. Each one of the 6 trees that came over was ivy clad, and ivy clad trees were only about half of the trees in there. They catch the wind in winter and blow over. The ivy eventually outcompetes the canapy too, killing the tree.

 

I hate the stuff. It's bloody ugly too.

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5 hours ago, EdwardC said:

What it comes down to is having the information to make an informed decision rather than basing your decision on ignorance and past bad practice.

that isn't fair - you're just looking down on people now and all because you've given up manual labour and spent some time reading books. 

Anyone who mows their lawn regularly could be considered a destroyer of worlds. 

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What I'm saying is that management of trees should be evidence based and justifiable rather than based on ignorance, (e.g ivy kills trees), and past bad practice. What we do can be harmful as well as beneficial, and that balance needs to be understood.

 

There's nothing wrong with reading books or education. I'd recommend it.

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Of course education is beneficial - sometimes though it seems people get so immersed in the literature they begin to see people doing practical work as idiots who need educating 'follow me I know the way'

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15 hours ago, openspaceman said:

Given that I think ecoplugs are  an expensive  form of litter I'd hesitate to  recommend their use but...

do you think its chemically impossible for ecoplugs to poison the host tree when drilled into 'veteran' ivy? 

The phenomenon of glyphosate 'flashback' is more usual between two trees of the same species that have root connections, so stump killing a syc on the boundary could kill the one next door etc, but could the herbicide be translocated to the ivy roots and transported accross the ivy root cell walls directly into the tree roots? I wouldnt want to risk the chance on a champion tree like that. 

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40 minutes ago, EdwardC said:

rather than based on ignorance, (e.g ivy kills trees),

I have read a good few tree books myself, maybe not the all incunabula you've had access to, but the core texts. I wouldn't say it is ignorance to think ivy kills trees - the increased drag leading to windthrow and the smothering of buds leading to leggy growth only right at the tips. Ivy isn't doing a tree any favours, it's only hindering its growth and survival. The habitat ivy provides is another matter entirely.

I can't believe an educated person can't see that on  deciduous trees that have evolved to be bare in winter during the strongest winds the increased drag caused by an ivy infestation will increase the chance of windthrow

Edited by tree-fancier123
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