lowerable base ties

[carlos]

whilst looking around at srt vids on youtube there seems to be loads of different lowerable base ties being used, some very elaborate!

my question/discussion is are they a good idea?? well in principle they seem great, climber gets hurt- any one can quickly lower them to the ground.

but i think there are many flaws in the plan, chances are if its a saw related accident then the climber may well have his/ her lanyard on( hopefully one realizes before lowering!)

if the climber has isolated their top tie in point or any other redirect then it wont work.

the main thing i dont like about the idea is when working off a base tie is all that rope down the back of the tree, out of sight, in ivy etc is vulnerable to being cut thus causing a fall, plus if you smoking out large limbs it could come in contact with the rope, and also possible but pretty unlikely is the groundy doing something stupid with your base tie .

so for me it comes down to which i feel is a more likely to happen, an accident that needs me to be rescued or and accident caused by using a base tie.

just my thoughts and i could well be missing somthing with these lowerable base ties( having never actually used one !lol)

carl

 

[AHPP]

You’ve pretty much got it. It’s a nice idea but the leg of rope going down the back of the tree to get hit with wood or rubbed by rigging ropes usually makes it a non-starter. Even if it was routed pretty well, the nagging doubt would distract me. That’s from a perspective of doing mainly removals. I can see it being a bit more viable on reductions but you’ve still got the lanyard and rescuer issues.

[ben_y]

Rescuing from a base tie is almost an oxymoron. Base ties are great for access in bigger trees and when your working in a different area of the tree to where your line is routed back down or if your in an adjacent tree. Definitely has its merits. I use a figure 8 backed up. You can also set the amount of slack rope in your system so your not pulling 50m about all the time.

[carlos]

just had to google "oxymoron" ! so iam not the only one who thinks lowerable base ties and rescues arent ideal.

i nearly always use a base tie to access the tree but usally get it untied and pull it up and retie at the top, or at least isolate the tip.

that said if its low work i wont as it defeats the point of srt being able to set a workable high anchor from the ground.

[Mark Bolam]

Same here Carlos.

It’s a very job specific call.

[stihlmadasever]

Id agree that the lowerable base tie scenario is practically useless in my mind.So many variables could render it futile in the event of the climber having a serious accident.

Im a bit of a shit bag when it comes to base tieing,i prefer to top tie.

Seen one of the lads take a big drop on a base tie when a branch or fork his rope was over gave out.

Jolted his back and scared the bejesus out of him and us,only dropped about 4 meters but enough to hit home the implications of firing a throw weight over the top and base tieing.

Bounce tests can place extra strain on forks too.Something to consider...

[stihlmadasever]

Thought oxymoron was a  fancy term for idiot...

[Aerialtraveler]

I prefer to top tie and I'm a recreational climber.

 

I've tried lowerable base ties. They can be helpful for initial access for dense trees that are easier to shoot over then into. But the chances of it being used successfully for a rescue are limited due to the climber being potential tied in with their lanyard (as the OP mentioned above). I was never a big fan of the increased load on the tie in point and the additional links that need to be checked due to the hardware being used, if any. A base-tie-off also introduces a lot of rope into a system (that isn't used with top ties) which can amplify the bounciness of certain ropes. 

 

There is also some debate if a untrained rescuer could figure out how (depending of how complicated the base tie is) to lower a climber that was injured and needed down quickly. This would apply to recreational climbers that don't have a trained ground crew like a working climber.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Aerialtraveler

[Sambo]

If, like me you're moving on to SRT from years of DRT then getting a throwline onto and isolated around a crotch is a pretty well rehearsed technique. In most cases I'm finding I can get a top tie-in point organised for either SRT or DRT in roughly the same time as it would take me to set up a "belayable" base anchor. 

The bonus is usually a top tie-in point can be switched from SRT to DRT relatively easily - handy for rescue or switching climbers part through a job!

[Tommy_B]

If you're working as a subby with new people, I can never see why people don't spend 20 minutes while people are shifting the gear around site, showing them the climbing system. If you need a rescue, base tie is the winner. If you think someone you're working with is a bit of a cockwomble, then do a base tie at the top of the ladder then there is less chance of it being undone unless they need to.

Bang the ladder up and its quick as.