If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck....

[AHPP]

I see it as two issues.
There’s the application of the various tests the common law has developed over the years (substitution, control, uniform, equipment etc). If people want to embark on contractual journeys with each other without first agreeing who stands where, that’s their lookout and they’re going to end up at the mercy of the courts (or arbitrators etc).
But where people have defined themselves, I say the position should be that they’ve contracted out of the opportunity to have a court/arbitrator later define them as something else.

[kimtree]

My dad worked for the same company in the UK for 19 years up until he was forced to retire but the entire time he was employed by an outside agency as a contractor . But the conditions which he worked under were exactly as what a worker would be classified as 

He had to be there at a certain time for a set number of hours(9 -5)  and couldn't delegate another contractor to do his job

He was also expect to go overseas at the companies beck and call.

 

 

[Inoff the Red]

2 hours ago, skyhuck said:

It’s not that simple.

 

One of the main reasons he was classed as a “worker” rather than freelance was the fact he was not able to send a replacement plumber in his place.

Many BBC presenters are freelance, how do you think it would go down if Graham Norton sent someone else to do his show?

This is one of the key tests to determine whether someone is self employed or employed. It is a matter of time before the BBC gets caught by this because there is no way that they would allow a substitute to appear.

 

With regards to the merits of the decision, I would be amazed if Pimlico Plumbers appealed the decision because the facts suggest that the worker was employed. I understand that he brought the case because his circumstances changed.

It will be interesting to see how his colleagues react to this if they are now deemed to be employed. As self employed they wont worry too much about the Working Time Directive and probably work long hours to earn the six figure sums they have been doing. As employees they will find it difficult to put the hours in to maintain those earnings (and if P Plumbers allows/encourages them  to work in excess of the WTD limits they are setting themselves for another appearance in front of a tribunal when another workers "circumstances change").

[devon TWiG]

If he was acting as "self employed "  what could he use to offset against tax ??  it was the companies van ,tools, advertising etc etc ... 

[Inoff the Red]

53 minutes ago, devon TWiG said:

If he was acting as "self employed "  what could he use to offset against tax ??  it was the companies van ,tools, advertising etc etc ... 

Interesting question, he would have his own insurance and office costs plus he probably employed his missus to do the books. 

[Sheepy]

On 14/06/2018 at 19:44, Inoff the Red said:

Interesting question, he would have his own insurance and office costs plus he probably employed his missus to do the books. 

Can claim food expenses a certain distance from home base ect...

[Inoff the Red]

17 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Can claim food expenses a certain distance from home base ect...

Not necessarily, it depends on whether you are self employed or a director/employee of a limited company.

For the self employed, the determining factor is what constitutes a normal pattern of work rather than distance from home. Claiming for meals (breakfast & dinner) associated with an overnight stay may be ok, claiming for lunches may be subject to challenge.

 

 

 

[difflock]

A cousin who works as a steel fabricator, and has worked to the same firm for near 40 years, spent a few years "self employed", when it was a widespread acceptable dodge(to both employer and employee byw.)

Anyway in casual conversation one year it became clear that we were both paying about the same tax.

Cept I paid mine every month.

He paid his once per year.

I exaggerate, but only minimally.

Van expenses, clothing, laundery, private health insurance(perhaps?), all tax deductible expenses, plus oodles of tax deductible tools to use on after hours "homers".

A good screw while it lasted, that is until HMRC clamped down on the practise.