Transition to self employed (wages etc)

[Carl1991]

4 hours ago, Jard84 said:

I’d take the self employed option mate. From the sounds of it, we both have a similar amount of time served in the industry. If your boss isn’t interested in upping your money to keep you happy then all that’s going to happen is you’ll end up resenting everything you’re asked to do if you stay.

I’ve tried full time employment, hated it. Felt I always had a firm hold of the shitty end of the stick and only really got control back over my working week and general happiness when I went SE again.

£120 a day is what I take if I’m climbing, £100 a day if I’m groundsman for someone. £150 is the golden spot I’m working towards but in my own opinion. I’m not quick enough and have no rigging gear to warrant £150.

Take the plunge. Shop around. Work for other people, that’s where you’ll really learn things, get your name out there and most importantly make sure you are getting a good deal. Don’t be afraid to ask for more money if you feel you’re being asked to do something that warrants extra cash.

Be confident too, if you’re a competent and safe climber. Not everyone can do what you do so know your worth.

It might seem scary but if you’re a hard worker, punctual, pleasant to be around and understand your job. You’ll get more work. If your current boss values your input, he’ll pay your day rate to keep you coming in for him.

Good luck
 

Exactly why I'm asking 120. As said in first post I'm not the usain bolt of climbers, I'm not qualified to rig, or have my own lowering kit so I can't expect top dollar. But I'm technical, the other week for example, Scots pine at the bottom of a 3 tier garden, timber left at bottom of tree as asked. All brash speedlined to driveway to chipper. 4 man job, 2 went off to do a trimming job me and another lad stayed. All down tidied by 3 no problem. Boss was impressed, did say sometimes quicker to drag as opposed to unclipping slings all the time, but Labour was saved and enabled us to get on another job for a parish.  I probs could do a bloody lot. It's just kit limitation here too 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Carl1991

[5 shires]

7 hours ago, Jon@CareFell said:

Cheers Saul. It was not meant to be a gripe at all, just an observation of the market place, the other firms treat the guys well. It’s just not always clear cut. Also I am always left confused that people are still using £150 as a base mark for SE day rates. I started out 10 years ago and £150 was the going rate for a good climber, I was led to believe that at the time it had been the going rate previously for 10-15 years, maybe some of the older guys can say if this is right? If it is then 20-25 years with no increase in wages?! I could not afford to pay my guys more for regular work as it would start to price us out but will we all still be expecting £150 in another 10,15,20 years? Just a thought/observation .... don’t know what to do about it mind....... everyone would have to start asking for more at the same time I guess.

The £150 aday rate I mentioned is an absolute minimum a decent freelance climber should be asking...but I guess very rearly gets...I agree the £150 rate per day was around 10/15 years ago but I didn’t know any one then who was getting that for subbie work..I think £150 aday is what any good subbie should be asking for...how can you possibly ask for anymore,what amount of work would you get if you asked for £200 aday? It’s a competitive market out there and employees will rather pay £100 aday for a inexperienced climber rather then the worlds fastest and best for £150 or more..is it a case of supply and demand...it’s never going to change and the only way you will earn more then £150 aday on a very regular basis is if you run your own business and set up.just my thoughts on it.

[Jard84]

Exactly why I'm asking 120. As said in first post I'm not the usain bolt of climbers, I'm not qualified to rig, or have my own lowering kit so I can't expect top dollar. But I'm technical, the other week for example, Scots pine at the bottom of a 3 tier garden, timber left at bottom of tree as asked. All brash speedlined to driveway to chipper. 4 man job, 2 went off to do a trimming job me and another lad stayed. All down tidied by 3 no problem. Boss was impressed, did say sometimes quicker to drag as opposed to unclipping slings all the time, but Labour was saved and enabled us to get on another job for a parish.  I probs could do a bloody lot. It's just kit limitation here too 

It sounds like you’re ready to take the plunge mate, if your current boss is up for giving you days as self employed but not willing to pay you what you want. Just keep him as security and start climbing for other people at the rate you want.

You’ll definitely find that your skill set will develop working with different people and as you improve so will your day rate.

I mean, SE isn’t all roses. You’ll sometimes have slack days where you’re worried about where the works coming from or you’ll need to find the money to replace some expensive ppe or climbing tackle. But as you get more established with more contacts, those issues shouldn’t be as pressing.

From personal experience, the positives far out weigh the negatives of being self employed though and again, for me. I wouldn’t go employed again

[john p]

Cheers Saul. It was not meant to be a gripe at all, just an observation of the market place, the other firms treat the guys well. It’s just not always clear cut. Also I am always left confused that people are still using £150 as a base mark for SE day rates. I started out 10 years ago and £150 was the going rate for a good climber, I was led to believe that at the time it had been the going rate previously for 10-15 years, maybe some of the older guys can say if this is right? If it is then 20-25 years with no increase in wages?! I could not afford to pay my guys more for regular work as it would start to price us out but will we all still be expecting £150 in another 10,15,20 years? Just a thought/observation .... don’t know what to do about it mind....... everyone would have to start asking for more at the same time I guess.

Probably 15/16 years ago I was getting £90 Pd se as a pretty good climber, crept up to 120 then £150 for last couple of years, occasionally subbie climb if my stuffs v slow, but get £190 now. ( that’s pretty much off one firm, it’s a lot but I can’t be arsed otherwise!)

[benedmonds]

5 hours ago, Carl1991 said:

Exactly why I'm asking 120. As said in first post I'm not the usain bolt of climbers, I'm not qualified to rig, or have my own lowering kit so I can't expect top dollar...

As a freelancer you should set your day rate, if your not happy with it go elsewhere. If your employer is not happy with it they don't have to use you..  It's a market..  

[eggsarascal]

20 minutes ago, benedmonds said:

As a freelancer you should set your day rate, if your not happy with it go elsewhere. If your employer is not happy with it they don't have to use you..  It's a market..  

Bang on. Any subby/freelancer going out for much less than £200/day is on a hiding to nothing.

[Carl1991]

I'm just trying to find a happy medium. I'm not qualified to rig, I think when you hit 150+ your expected to be ticketed up to that standard. More discussions with employer arranged for Wed evening

[Mick Dempsey]

Qualified to rig? Jesus! Has it come to that?

[htb]

24 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Qualified to rig? Jesus! Has it come to that?

If that's the case I'm out

[benedmonds]

9 hours ago, eggsarascal said:

Bang on. Any subby/freelancer going out for much less than £200/day is on a hiding to nothing.

At £200 a day you are not going to get any work round here.. No one around me asks that sort of rate unless they have a truck and chipper. Eggs as I understand it you are NOT a freelance climber and you do not employ Freelance climbers if you did you would not be in business..