Low impact forestry services in Devon and the South West

[Conor Wright]

13 minutes ago, wicklamulla said:

i must go and visit there when i'm next back in Wickla as it has an interesting history according to Google.

Nice place, well worth a walk around. Usually quiet during the week. weekends draw the dubs with pent up dogs and kids. A foggy morning, late spring, clearing to crisp sunshine as you enter the old part of the woods is memorable.

[drinksloe]

Ur mibee right if they thinned a smaller area it would mean less journeys which would help, but it would also mean less brash for a Matt too.

That's the problem with thinning don't have as much bag to make the matts with.

 

Would a tractor and botex not make just as much mess.

If they sent a digger in after I'd cover a lot of ground, be porridge the 1st year but after that would soon harden up

[ESS]

5 minutes ago, drinksloe said:

Ur mibee right if they thinned a smaller area it would mean less journeys which would help, but it would also mean less brash for a Matt too.

That's the problem with thinning don't have as much bag to make the matts with.

 

Would a tractor and botex not make just as much mess.

If they sent a digger in after I'd cover a lot of ground, be porridge the 1st year but after that would soon harden up

My bet is that anything would have made a mess in there looking at the photos. Its not as much a case of machinery being wrong as perhaps timing, but someone let them start the job, that's forestry hey ? 

Most landowners/ agents will look at the bottom line, would they have been better off financially extracting with lighter machinery extracting a couple of tonnes a time ? I doubt it with the added extraction costs , and they would have still had mess to reinstate.

[hplp]

TBH the fact that they are thinning is remarkable. It is rare if ever done in west Cork.

 

H

[Conor Wright]

15 minutes ago, ESS said:

My bet is that anything would have made a mess in there looking at the photos. Its not as much a case of machinery being wrong as perhaps timing, but someone let them start the job, that's forestry hey ? 

Most landowners/ agents will look at the bottom line, would they have been better off financially extracting with lighter machinery extracting a couple of tonnes a time ? I doubt it with the added extraction costs , and they would have still had mess to reinstate.

And in the longer run they lose out, but don't seem to care, lots of damage to remaining trees, windblow due to significant soil disturbance lower growth rates of remaining trees due to compaction and root damage.

 

You're right in saying a tractor trailer combo would be as bad or worse, but why use that within the wood? Keep it on the tracks and use light and nimble forwarder to extract to various points along the existing track instead of constantly using the same path. Just because it's not a conventional way of doing it doesn't mean it wont work as well or better than common practise. Saying that, every site is different but I am quite familiar with this one and as such can see the advantages and disadvantages of using different techniques.

[Conor Wright]

Just now, hplp said:

TBH the fact that they are thinning is remarkable. It is rare if ever done in west Cork.

 

H

Grant was up, farmer wanted cash. Simple as. 

[ESS]

17 minutes ago, Conor Wright said:

And in the longer run they lose out, but don't seem to care, lots of damage to remaining trees, windblow due to significant soil disturbance lower growth rates of remaining trees due to compaction and root damage.

 

You're right in saying a tractor trailer combo would be as bad or worse, but why use that within the wood? Keep it on the tracks and use light and nimble forwarder to extract to various points along the existing track instead of constantly using the same path. Just because it's not a conventional way of doing it doesn't mean it wont work as well or better than common practise. Saying that, every site is different but I am quite familiar with this one and as such can see the advantages and disadvantages of using different techniques.

Like I said, bottom line, every time you handle a piece of wood in the way you are describing adds costs, add another machine into the equation and it increases contractors costs .Tbh most of us will have seen some pretty shitty messes made by quad bikes when constantly used over wet ground , some sites are better left for another day, the contractor who is the one that normally gets the flack for things like this is only doing as instructed, if most of us had a choice we would work mess free all year round, but forestry ground doesn't always allow that, however dry the weather.

[Big J]

Just the wrong time of year, for sure. 

 

We had horrible ground conditions in a valley in January with the little forwarder and it made a right mess. I don't think you could have done anything with any machine at that time of year on that ground without creating a mess. Lesson learned though - if you have to work on clay, make sure it's dry.

 

UPDATE:

 

Due to an increasing volume of larger clearfells and thinnings, I'm in the process of sorting out the purchase (well, finance) of a Komatsu 840TX. It's classed as a thinnings forwarder, but it's still huge, carrying 12t. We need it though as whilst the Valtra tractor is good, it's not suited to some of the jobs we've got coming up in the next 12 months,

[Elmsdown Forestry]

Evening J

 

Have a  840tx myself, very capable machine and with the right operator very good over the ground. 

Just watch out for the pins/bolsters in the racks not Komatsu’s finest quality metal and bend really easily. Check the welds on the bunk extension and if it’s been extended to fit more than 2 bays of 2.7-2.8  stay away as will cause centre joint issues. 

Beware in stuff like Corsican 2 bays of 2.7 chip can easily be upto 15 ton. 

Good luck with it. 

 

 

[Spruce Pirate]

Trouble is.......

 

What is classed as a thinning machine?  In Conor's example an Ergo isn't exactly a small machine, certainly not in first thinnings.  Put almost any off the shelf machine from any of the big manuracturers into first thinnings and it'll look HUGE.  What the manufacturers class as thinnings machines are, in my opinion, really more suited to later thinnings.  In order to do first thinnings properly you're looking as specialist small scale machinery (such as yours J) or going back to hand cutting - or a combination of both.  Problem then is a lack of funds to cover the costs.  Problem if you put machines that are too big in is you end up skinning trees and damaging the ground , you end up with butt rot and potentially unstable crops.  The result can be seen all over the place either non-thin regime or a delayed thin, more instability followed by premature clearfell.

 

There's still quite a bit of figuring out to be done in the thinning conundrum, small scale equipment seems to be getting better, but I thing there's still a bit to do to persuade people (owners / investors) that it's worthwhile doing properly.

 

 

I should add that I'm talking really about upland spruce (sitka) forests, those who are luckier to be lower down with better soils and more diverse crops may be able to make thinnings work easier.