Subbing for Ground Control

[stihlmadasever]

Subbing for different companies is dicey.

The few ive worked for have been decent but one sticks out in my head,the job was in edinburgh,nowt dodgey just a row of connies to come down,me and another climber and 2 ground guys,i turned up to find 1x 17 year old lad with a couple of weeks experience draggin and chipping.

The boss had dropped him of with the chipper and took the other lads to another job.

I walked..

To be honest i only work for the companies who i know to be decent but its getting to know whos good and who are shadey barstewards-thats the tricky bit.

[Tom D]

Trust means f-all Tom, and you've left a k off your £150.

Significant, that.

 

Play with the big boys at your own risk, don't ever get too deep.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

 

I agree, but often the 'big boys' win massive contracts that they aren't capable of servicing on their own. If you are prepared to take them on you can do well. The trick is not go get in too deep with any one crowd or sector for that matter. We are about 25% public sector 25% domestic, 25% commercial and 25% Subby.

[monkeybusiness]

We do a lot of subbing, it's ok if you trust the firm you work for, I had a nightmare with Glendale, I wouldn't work with them again. But then ihave done maybe £150 with another firm last year with no problems. You need to watch out for Marks and Spencer syndrome.

This is when you begin subbing for a firm and then you get to a stage where thy give you so much work that you can't afford to loose them, then they have you by the short and curlies.

 

This is great advice.

 

We sub to a number of these large outfits, GC are pretty good to be honest but it would be easy to grow your business on the back of any one of them promising/requiring/demanding all of your resources right now for a really important project they are struggling to deliver. The problem is none of them (IME) offer sustained, guaranteed long term work - remember that you are simply providing them with a resource that they can pick up and put down at will - don't get too dependant on any one of them as the workload can dry up very quickly and there is no loyalty with any of them, no matter what they tell you.

 

Also watch how much you end up bank-rolling these firms for - it is very easy to have them owing you £30k, then £40k, then £50k etc. You never get that money out of them until you stop working for them as their payment terms can be pretty poor (Ground Control tend to be 30 days which isn't too bad). If they go bump (which unfortunately appears to happen frequently in this game - look at Fountains and Man Coed as examples of firms that have gone bust and taken subbies for hundreds of thousands of pounds, sometimes more than once which seems ridiculous but is the world we live in!) then you will lose whatever money they owe you. Use them only as an additional work stream (in the same way that they will use you) but don't ever get into any of them for more money than you can afford to lose would be my advice.

[htb]

we have subbed to a similar big outfit for over ten years our advice is don't be too dependent on them, fit it in over and above your normal work load do not turn down work to accommodate them, and keep on top of what money they owe you. We are on 60 day payment terms officially but can be up to 90 (as they can't find 2 cheque signatories wtf)Be prepared for the work to dry up any time,there are no guarantees in this game. Do all this and you will be quids in!

[Tree_Ninja]

GC have a policy to always withhold 10% or 20% of sub contractors payments to ensure "loyalty", this comes from the top.

 

They will also drop you if you start to earn too much or get too big.

 

I'd recommend they are to be avoided!

[Mark BGM]

Subbed for 4 yrs as a field team,  started off sort of ok, i did question the cost per site visit which is very tight given you need address all areas of landscape maintenance. They gradually gave us more and more sites , most without any consultation, eventually we no time for other works , taken over by ground control after a couple years, often management not well informed of changes,  wrong information.

Eventually in a meeting last December they took all our sites off us for no solid reason,  left my business in dire straits,  it supports myself and wife, who is disabled,  my youngest son, and my eldests and his family.

  No warnings, no meeting prior to this event.

I think they build up a good round with subbies over time, then shelve them, then give to a team directly employed. 

Very immoral business ethics.

steer clear!!

[dumper]

19 minutes ago, Mark BGM said:

Subbed for 4 yrs as a field team,  started off sort of ok, i did question the cost per site visit which is very tight given you need address all areas of landscape maintenance. They gradually gave us more and more sites , most without any consultation, eventually we no time for other works , taken over by ground control after a couple years, often management not well informed of changes,  wrong information.

Eventually in a meeting last December they took all our sites off us for no solid reason,  left my business in dire straits,  it supports myself and wife, who is disabled,  my youngest son, and my eldests and his family.

  No warnings, no meeting prior to this event.

I think they build up a good round with subbies over time, then shelve them, then give to a team directly employed. 

Very immoral business ethics.

steer clear!!

They just had someone who did it cheaper GC are notorious for this and extremely economical with the truth 

[Botty Cough]

3 hours ago, Mark BGM said:

Subbed for 4 yrs as a field team,  started off sort of ok, i did question the cost per site visit which is very tight given you need address all areas of landscape maintenance. They gradually gave us more and more sites , most without any consultation, eventually we no time for other works , taken over by ground control after a couple years, often management not well informed of changes,  wrong information.

Eventually in a meeting last December they took all our sites off us for no solid reason,  left my business in dire straits,  it supports myself and wife, who is disabled,  my youngest son, and my eldests and his family.

  No warnings, no meeting prior to this event.

I think they build up a good round with subbies over time, then shelve them, then give to a team directly employed. 

Very immoral business ethics.

steer clear!!

That result is kind of your own fault for letting it happen.

Pretty poor business sense if you ever thought it would be good to have all your eggs in one basket.

[Botty Cough]

3 hours ago, dumper said:

They just had someone who did it cheaper GC are notorious for this and extremely economical with the truth 

It's not just ground control,that's standard for using subbies in that way.

[Mark BGM]

22 hours ago, Botty Cough said:

That result is kind of your own fault for letting it happen.

Pretty poor business sense if you ever thought it would be good to have all your eggs in one basket.

fortunately we didnt have all our eggs in one basket as you stated, i have resisted doing that for obvious reasons, my business sense is is only as good as the information i have to work with to make decisions , if other businesses are unethical in their business dealings you get caught on occasion, you sound like someone who claims they never made a bad move , a know all !