Trump Petition

[Mortimer Firewood]

With the greatest respect for your personal view on religion J, the one point that strikes me as always being over-looked in the great pro/anti religion debate is the huge "comfort" that religion (any denomination) brings to millions of humans all over the world.

 

We always seem to focus on the perception that blame / cause of strife is the result of religious belief - possibly more accurately described as the failings of mankind hidden or justified under the banner of religious justification - but, regardless wether one holds a belief or not, we never seem to recognise that a great many draw a great comfort from it.

 

Just saying, I don't mind if people take comfort from something I don't understand.... (Perhaps like yourself though, I kind of do mind if people do bad stuff and try to justify by religion)

 

After spending time in a children's intensive care unit I've seen first hand how a little belief in who Evers god can go along way. Not for me but also not for me to criticise anybody else's beliefs.

[Mull]

With the greatest respect for your personal view on religion J, the one point that strikes me as always being over-looked in the great pro/anti religion debate is the huge "comfort" that religion (any denomination) brings to millions of humans all over the world.

 

We always seem to focus on the perception that blame / cause of strife is the result of religious belief - possibly more accurately described as the failings of mankind hidden or justified under the banner of religious justification - but, regardless wether one holds a belief or not, we never seem to recognise that a great many draw a great comfort from it.

 

Just saying, I don't mind if people take comfort from something I don't understand.... (Perhaps like yourself though, I kind of do mind if people do bad stuff and try to justify by religion)

 

 

Yup.

" in the name of religion", nutters user it as a reason! The real reason is they are nutters.

If you could wipe out all forms of religion tomorrow, you'd still have the nutters who'd find another cause to try and justify their behaviour.

As the great Jock Stein said" it's not religion that's the problem, it's the lack of religion"

Obviously he was talking about sectarianism, which is carried out by nutters.

 

 

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[Mull]

I understand your point, but honestly in a situation where something awful had happened to me or a loved one, religious belief would leave me asking some pretty difficult questions. My wife lost her best friend to Leukemia 6 years ago. Her husband is religious and is also a very good friend. He reconciled it as being part of God's plan, but frankly if God's plan it to inflict incurable Leukemia onto a wonderful 25 year woman then it's not any God that deserves recognition, let alone respect

If I were in a situation like that, the only way I could (possibly?) come to terms with it is to accept it as it is. Part of the cruel and random nature of existence. To seek greater meaning in existence, a purpose in life is to elevate ourselves beyond what we are. Which is initially animals and finally worm food.

 

 

He will cope with that situation far better than someone (yourself) without belief.

That's a bad thing in your book?

 

 

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[TIMON]

But if that belief is patently wrong, and it's application inflicts suffering onto billions of people, then surely it is to be criticised? We would think nothing of mocking someone who believed that the earth was flat, or that certain races were superior to others (eh, matelot?), so why should we exercise restraint with regard to religion?

 

 

Easy to apply that rationale to atheism.

The worst atrocities (possibly ever) in modern history were perpetrated by atheists.

 

Hitler's social Darwinism and Stalin's atheist systematic extermination of tens of millions far outweigh any of the atrocities committed in the name of religion.

 

Man is a nasty piece of work.

What can science tell us about "evil"?

Science doesn't have all the answers.

 

 

 

 

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[Mull]

Science doesn't have all the answers

 

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Nobody does, thankfully.

 

 

 

 

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[matelot]

Again your trying to dodge the question ive put too you twice,so for a third time how do you know Isis target christians?

Clearly all other proof points to them targeting anyone in the west from any religious denomination.

 

Because the Koran itself says that non muslims are second class citizens? Traditionally Christians living in muslim lands had to pay a special tax (Yizya) for living in a Muslim country. Because IS themselves have said they attack the West because we don't follow Allah? Because terrorist attacks have constantly attacked Non Muslims? Do you remember the attack on the African shopping centre where Christians were killed and muslims were let go?

 

Tbh, I think 99% of people reading this thread would agree that IS have a policy of targeting non Muslims. When you constantly deny this policy it makes you look as if you don't have a grip on reality... So thanks very much

[TIMON]

The death count attributable to religion is far higher. One example is AIDS in Africa - the pandemic is massively exacerbated by the Catholic church's opposition to condoms.

 

 

 

Humans are nasty, unpleasant creatures and I do not think we'll ever evolve past that until we realise that all we have is this and once we're gone, we're gone. You don't need the promise of final judgement and the threat of eternal damnation to make you a better person. Quite the contrary. I believe that if people understood that there was only the here and now, we'd make more of an effort to be decent.

 

 

 

Mull - he probably would cope with it better but it is self deluding. I would rather be honest with myself than construct some fanciful story as a coping mechanism. I have not been in that situation though, so cannot say definitely.

 

 

I agree with you partly on this Big J. The threat of punishment is not enough incentive to change people from being inherently selfish to putting others first above themselves. It has to be something much deeper and more profound than that. If all you consider the Christian gospel to be is just a set of regulations and rules then you haven't got a real grasp about it at all, sadly.

You can't legislate morality, in real terms. It has to come from within.

Have a great day!

[emoji106]

 

 

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[difflock]

"Dewey" courtsey of Malcolm in the Middle had the whole religion think well summed up, when he discussed, with his RE teacher, smiting Ants with a shovel, whilst at the very same time wondering; did the Ants imagine he was their God?

Dewey concluded we should not need the threat of eternal dammnation, aka. religion to lead good lives.

He was correct.

[Daniël Bos]

"Dewey" courtsey of Malcolm in the Middle had the whole religion think well summed up, when he discussed, with his RE teacher, smiting Ants with a shovel, whilst at the very same time wondering; did the Ants imagine he was their God?

Dewey concluded we should not need the threat of eternal dammnation, aka. religion to lead good lives.

He was correct.

 

In your opinion...

 

I was raised in a christian family, decided it wasn't for me.

Both my grandparents were happy to go join god at the end of their lives, there was no fear of death, no sadness, just joy that they could be with god and in the case of my grandmother (who died second) the knowledge that she'd be reunited with her husband.

 

I use the terms "knowledge" as there was not a shred of doubt, this gave them both comfort and peace.

 

There are also other ways of finding it, but why bash the ways that works for them?

 

The zeal of some atheists on here and elsewhere in the real world is on par with the worst of the religious zealots in my opinion, and would suggest they are far less convinced of their own argument than they'd like to acknowledge (or possibly even know themselves?) There's just no need for such imho.

[stihlmadasever]

As i read this thread one question comes too mind...

What was this thread originaly about again..??

lol