Hypothetical question re subbies.

[benedmonds]

H. Of course in the situation described above I would pass the fine onto whoever I was contracting too. Its really not practical for a subbie climber to be checking the council restrictions every day / job they go too. That responsibility lies with the person doing the quote in my opinion

 

I don't think you can just pass fines on to someone else... The council will pursue who they think is responsible or who they think they can punish..

 

If they are a sub contractor then they could be liable and there is no reason why they should not check. But as said before most subbie climbers are actually freelance employees, so it is the responsibility of the employer and tree owner..

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

If a subbie was told to work on a tree which, unknown to him had TPO/CA restrictions...is he responsible or would it be the employer?

 

Hypothetically, either, or both, if they are deemed to have committed an offence, might be responsible dependent upon the circumstances and prosecuted.

 

The guidance at Enforcing tree protection offences | Planning Practice Guidance states:

 

What are the offences and who can be guilty of committing them?

 

Section 210(1) and Section 202C(2) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 provide that anyone who, in contravention of a Tree Preservation Order

•cuts down, uproots or wilfully destroys a tree; or

•tops, lops or wilfully damages a tree in a way that is likely to destroy it; or

•causes or permits such activities

 

is guilty of an offence.

 

After having said that, if you are simply the operative carrying out the works and your position / role / 'JD' has no responsibility for checking TPOs etc then you should be "in the clear." IME LPAs don't prosecute lightly and only where it's deemed to be in the public interest.

 

Cheers,

Paul

[mark hooper]

A case came to court Tpo tree pruned

Climber employed received a fine and criminal record along with director (owner)

He was more heavily fined

I think climbers fine was just a token gesture but still has a record

[treequip]

A case came to court Tpo tree pruned

Climber employed received a fine and criminal record along with director (owner)

He was more heavily fined

I think climbers fine was just a token gesture but still has a record

 

Details please

[treequip]

what isnt?

 

who cops the fine

[Thesnarlingbadger]

I personally think some laws need to be changed regarding this. If I was employed by someone who sent me out to work on a TPO without permission (in which I was completely unaware) and I got a criminal record, I'd be livid.

I think you take it in good faith that the tree has been checked prior to work.

Also if you are a sub contract (sorry freelance) climber asking the person you are working for to see paperwork that confirms the tree is not TPO'd or in conservation you can be pretty sure you won't be getting much more work off that employer in the future.

I'm not saying don't check and I ask on certain trees but I've worked on a scrappy conifer hedge with a TPO on it in the past and no way in hell would I every have questioned that unless I was quoting the job.

Just my opinion.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Good thread!

 

I was half way through a Holm Oak dismantle for a mucker a few months back and casually asked "you have done TPO and CA checks haven't you.....?"

 

The blank look spoke volumes!

[Gary Prentice]

We don't concern ourselves who would be, hypothetically, responsible around here. The LAs legal department don't prosecute, even when the TO catches someone chainsaw in hand, so apparently you can do as you please.

[Joe Newton]

Good thread!

 

I was half way through a Holm Oak dismantle for a mucker a few months back and casually asked "you have done TPO and CA checks haven't you.....?"

 

The blank look spoke volumes!

 

 

How long did you get?

[Gary Prentice]

Kev ain't been caught yet. But will have to sweat for seven years, which I think is the length of time you can be prosecuted for 'tree crimes'