211 Notice

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Now that is appealing to my sense of humour....

[jaime bray]

[benedmonds]

The local authority workload is huge. I empathise and try to assist where I can.

 

If you are planning to go into consultancy,a good relationship with your local tree officers will be a lot more valuable than a bad one.

 

My work load can also be huge.. and if a council doesn't reply to TPO apps or 211 notices it makes scheduling very difficult. Clients don't like waiting 8 weeks for the council to make a decision and then another 6 weeks to book the work in. They won't normally do pre-application meetings any more and some have very different views to me on what works are acceptable.. I put in applications I think are likely to be excepted and provisionally book them in the diary with an extra week.

 

But I regularly get letters from one council at the end of 8 weeks saying they have not made a decision and I can appeal.. This can leave me with a big hole to fill in the diary at short notice. One council's TO, rarely replies to emails or answer the phone and only works part time. After phoning daily and leaving emails, I have resorted to telling them that we are planing on doing the work on such and such date. When run badly its a massive ball ache.

 

.. A better council has a standard letter for 211 notices that says if you have not heard by x date carry on and I am sometimes shocked to get acceptance letter within a week.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

My work load can also be huge.. and if a council doesn't reply to TPO apps or 211 notices it makes scheduling very difficult. Clients don't like waiting 8 weeks for the council to make a decision and then another 6 weeks to book the work in. They won't normally do pre-application meetings any more and some have very different views to me on what works are acceptable.. I put in applications I think are likely to be excepted and provisionally book them in the diary with an extra week.

 

But I regularly get letters from one council at the end of 8 weeks saying they have not made a decision and I can appeal.. This can leave me with a big hole to fill in the diary at short notice. One council's TO, rarely replies to emails or answer the phone and only works part time. After phoning daily and leaving emails, I have resorted to telling them that we are planing on doing the work on such and such date. When run badly its a massive ball ache.

 

.. A better council has a standard letter for 211 notices that says if you have not heard by x date carry on and I am sometimes shocked to get acceptance letter within a week.

 

If regular, I'd be inclined to prepare a letter format and start despatching appeal letters on day 57.

 

Sure, the determination would probably appear before the appeal hearing but PINS would soon get hacked off with having to register valid appeals and you'd hope the necessary "attention" would be brought to bear on the relevant department. Civil service is good for that kind of thing!

[daltontrees]

No. It arises from case law. In the context of notice, the law takes no account of fractions of a day.

 

I've covered validation of S211's before, but to recap. The LPA CANNOT validate a notice of intention. It is, as everyone agrees, NOT an application. Once it has been received the clock is ticking. If the works, or the tree on which the works are to be carried out on aren't clear, then the LPA should enter discussions with the notifier to get clarity.

 

If they can't get clarity on the extent of the works they can TPO the tree. If they can't get clarity on which tree the works are to be carried out on they can prosecute if works to a tree are undertaken. It would then be for the Courts to decide if the information provided in the notice clearly identified the tree or not.

 

Ed

 

Nice and clear as ever, Ed.

[Kveldssanger]

When I submit through planning portal i get an email informing me that the local authority will validate the notification within their work flows, it also states that I'm not to accept the pp email as a validated notification.

 

Upon receipt of the notification, the local authority planning department, assess the notification to ensure that everything that should be contained within it is present.

 

I then get an email stating that the notification is either adequate or not.

 

Until I receive that email I do not begin to count six weeks.

 

The local authority has to give twenty one days minimum to allow general public to view and make comment etc. Through regular contact I am made aware of when the public consultation period begins and ends.

 

After this period I contact the local tree officer or planning department to discuss any developments arising.

 

This then aids me in keeping my client informed whilst allowing me to manage workloads to satisfy clients timeframe of work being completed.

 

If I submit a notification to carryout work,I would never carryout that work without having written confirmation from the local authority that there is no objection and/or an intention to apply a tpo.

 

This approach seems to work for me. The local authority workload is huge. I empathise and try to assist where I can.

 

If you've ever waited around on site on the day a job is to be done, because you were just that bit uncertain as to whether notice period has passed etc, then you will know of the undue stress. The job is hard enough without worrying about prosecution and a bad reputation.

 

If you are planning to go into consultancy,a good relationship with your local tree officers will be a lot more valuable than a bad one.

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

No. It arises from case law. In the context of notice, the law takes no account of fractions of a day.

 

Have you changed your thinking from 2 weeks ago: "The six week clock starts ticking when the authority receives the notice, and they have no powers to stop it, or delay its start." http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/trees-law/104549-211-notice.html

 

I've covered validation of S211's before, but to recap. No need to re-cap on my account, I saw what you wrote last time..... Didn't think it needed a reply. You're rather pushing at an open door on this topic, no need to labour the point. I certainly didn't express the view that the LA should / could / may validate a 211 notice, I said it must be a valid submission - which it must. You've rather taken yourself off on a tangent I'm afraid.The LPA CANNOT validate a notice of intention. It is, as everyone agrees, NOT an application. I'm not sure why you're getting a hairy shirt on?Once it has been received the clock is ticking Not the day after receipt then?. If the works, or the tree on which the works are to be carried out on aren't clear, then the LPA should enter discussions with the notifier to get clarity.

 

If they can't get clarity on the extent of the works they can TPO the tree. If they can't get clarity on which tree the works are to be carried out on they can prosecute if works to a tree are undertaken. It would then be for the Courts to decide if the information provided in the notice clearly identified the tree or not.

 

Ed

 

I can't get wrapped around the axle on it Ed, 42-43 days don't make a busting lot of difference in the grand scheme of things. What I see is a PP submission transferring to an LA planning page with a decision date (and I use the LA terminology - not mine, but it is still a decision on the part of the LA - the decision is "not to oppose" or "oppose" by means of a TPO - 42 days (inclusive of submission date) - that's good enough for me. Day 43 and beyond, it's open season. You have suggested the clock starts the day after submission, which is not what it says in the TCA nor is it what I see happening. If you can find a post where I've ever proposed that a 211 needs to be approved I'll buy you a bottle of vino!

[inthewoods]

Sorry to be blunt, but they can intend to what they want. The only way a LA can object to notified works, a section 211 notice, in a Conservation Area, is to serve a TPO. They can't make up their own rules and 'allow' alternate works.

 

Even the title on that response is incorrect. It isn't an Application - no-one is applying to fell, you're notifying that you intend to unless they oppose it by serving a TPO.

 

Who's going to tell them they're wrong!?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Who's going to tell them they're wrong!?

 

 

Light blue touch paper, retire to a safe distance - 🌪 💥 🚀

[Gary Prentice]

Who's going to tell them they're wrong!?

 

My LA used to demand three copies for tree Apps. I told them them this didn't concur with the regs and, IIRC, the blue book and that I wouldn't be doing that.

 

They changed their procedure.