211 Notice

[daltontrees]

An extract from the Act (see last sentence) at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/8/section/211

 

 

Previously linked that in post 30 Paul.

 

It seems an odd choice of words though: "it shall be a defence for a person charged... blah, blah etc..."

 

There would be no offence requiring a defence if the person were to rely upon the circumstances that provide a defence!

 

Just seems like a waste of words to me.

 

😳

 

It's always seemed to me too an odd way to go about saying that you can do the notified work after 6 weeks if there's no TPO. But it's also worth remembering that the wording is structured to put the onus on the notifier to PROVE that he served notice. And I suppose a Council won't start proceedings if it knows that, having received notice, that defence will succeed. There's possibly a Rizla of a chance that notice has been served but not received.

 

Weird stuff does happen though. Last week I received a formal document at my house for my ex, who has never lived there. I happen to know it was probably a 14 day notice about something innocuous from a lawyer. One copy ordinary post, one recorded delivery. In the Christmas post mayhem, the postie didn't try to get anyone to sign for the recorded delivery one. By the time I sent it back marked 'not at this address' the notice period will have expired and the sender might by now be off on some other course of action based on having served notice. Just goes to show something, not sure what except that you never can be sure.

[Gary Prentice]

When I submit through planning portal i get an email informing me that the local authority will validate the notification within their work flows, it also states that I'm not to accept the pp email as a validated notification.

 

Upon receipt of the notification, the local authority planning department, assess the notification to ensure that everything that should be contained within it is present.

 

I then get an email stating that the notification is either adequate or not.

My LA only automatically acknowledges receipt of emails, but never send a 'validation' response

Until I receive that email I do not begin to count six weeks.

 

The local authority has to give twenty one days minimum to allow general public to view and make comment etc. Through regular contact I am made aware of when the public consultation period begins and ends. My LA doesn't publicise notices or applications, I'm not even sure that they advise neighbours of applications. There is also no TPO or CA maps available online.

 

After this period I contact the local tree officer or planning department to discuss any developments arising. I've rung my planning officer 14 times in the last fortnight, never available and never returns call, usually justs ignores emails

 

This then aids meet in keeping my client informed whilst allowing me to manage workloads to satisfy clients timeframe of work being completed.

I just apologise to clients for the lack of information from the planning department

If I submit a notification to carryout work,I would never carryout that work without having written confirmation from the local authority that there is no objection and/or an intention to apply a tpo.

 

This approach seems to work for me. The local authority workload is huge. I empathise and try to assist where I can.

 

If you've ever waited around on site on the day a job is to be done, because you were just that boy uncertain as to whether notice period has passed etc, then you will know of the undue stress. The job is hard enough without worrying about prosecution and a bad reputation.

 

If you are planning to go into consultancy,a good relationship with your local tree officers will be a lot more valuable than a bad one.

 

My Arb Officers are fine, the planning department is impossible to deal with. Can I come and work where you work:biggrin:

 

 

EDIT: I've also objected to a new TPO. Ther planning officer won't even answer my query as to when, or if, this will go before a planning committee. For all I know, the TO/PO decide to protect, look at any objections and then, their selves just ignore them and confirm.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Gary Prentice

[daltontrees]

If I submit a notification to carryout work,I would never carryout that work without having written confirmation from the local authority that there is no objection and/or an intention to apply a tpo.

 

If I waited for written confirmation, I would (with the exception of one occasion where I got a reply with inappropriately conditions attached) literally never have carried any of the 50 or so Conservation Area jobs I have done. It seems the 6 week rule is there as much to suit the LA as the applicant. I always do what's best for my client/customer the applicant.

[daltontrees]

My Arb Officers are fine, the planning department is impossible to deal with. Can I come and work where you work:biggrin:

 

Utopia District Council I think. Round our way you'd die of starvation relying on the Council getting anything proactive done.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

When I submit through planning portal i get an email informing me that the local authority will validate the notification within their work flows, it also states that I'm not to accept the pp email as a validated notification.

 

Same here, but what then happens, through the magic of internet wizardry, is that the planning portal data migrates directly into the LA area planning page. I presume someone looks at it at the LA, don't know. I find that if the planning portal submission is done properly there is little chance of the LA kicking it back for content omissions. One of my area LA's has an accredited agent scheme and the planning portal has the "smarter planning champion" scheme - I'm signed up to both which means accredited agent applications are processed with minimal checks. https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200205/professionals/115/smarter_planning/2

 

Upon receipt of the notification, the local authority planning department, assess the notification to ensure that everything that should be contained within it is present.

 

I then get an email stating that the notification is either adequate or not.

 

Until I receive that email I do not begin to count six weeks.

 

The local authority has to give twenty one days minimum to allow general public to view and make comment etc. Through regular contact I am made aware of when the public consultation period begins and ends.

 

After this period I contact the local tree officer or planning department to discuss any developments arising.

 

This then aids me in keeping my client informed whilst allowing me to manage workloads to satisfy clients timeframe of work being completed.

 

If I submit a notification to carryout work,I would never carryout that work without having written confirmation from the local authority that there is no objection and/or an intention to apply a tpo.

 

There's no obligation on the LA to provide a confirmation that they don't object. If you haven't received a TPO notice - they don't object.

 

This approach seems to work for me. The local authority workload is huge. I empathise and try to assist where I can.

 

It actually looks, from your description of your workflow, like you are ADDING to the huge work load of the LA rather than reducing it. Many stages that are superfluous. Just set a "tracker" on the LA planning page, you'll get auto updates on significant changes.

 

If you've ever waited around on site on the day a job is to be done, because you were just that bit uncertain as to whether notice period has passed etc, then you will know of the undue stress. The job is hard enough without worrying about prosecution and a bad reputation.

 

Um, no, I wouldn't be at the site if that level of uncertainty existed

 

If you are planning to go into consultancy,a good relationship with your local tree officers will be a lot more valuable than a bad one.

 

Define "good relationship". I think mutual respect on the basis of knowledge, accuracy, experience and professionalism is more important than trying to be pally

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

 

It's always seemed to me too an odd way to go about saying that you can do the notified work after 6 weeks if there's no TPO. But it's also worth remembering that the wording is structured to put the onus on the notifier to PROVE that he served notice. And I suppose a Council won't start proceedings if it knows that, having received notice, that defence will succeed. There's possibly a Rizla of a chance that notice has been served but not received.

 

Weird stuff does happen though.

 

True.... I'm a fully paid up supporter of online submissions now. It's all there, on record.

[jaime bray]

Define "good relationship". I think mutual respect on the basis of knowledge, accuracy, experience and professionalism is more important than trying to be pally

 

Hi was trying to respond to your questions and answers within my post, but don't know how to do the writing within that you did.

 

Being pally wasn't the relationship I was trying to convey. All of what you refer to in my opinion would constitute a good relationship.

 

Was unaware of the tracker aspect you highlight. Will look into that. Cheers.

 

Regarding the no tpo served aspect and this creating circumstance to carry on with the work. It is due to my grey understanding of what constitutes the six week period that I always check to see if tpo is to be served.

[jaime bray]

My Arb Officers are fine, the planning department is impossible to deal with. Can I come and work where you work:biggrin:

 

 

EDIT: I've also objected to a new TPO. Ther planning officer won't even answer my query as to when, or if, this will go before a planning committee. For all I know, the TO/PO decide to protect, look at any objections and then, their selves just ignore them and confirm.

 

It's saturated around here with tree firms. Only enough for half a days work for most companies. You would hate it Gary. Stay where you are

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I don't think you can do the typing inside a quote if you're on iPhone app for example (I may be wrong) but on a desk top, you quote, then just type inside the quote, using a different colour text makes it stand out from the original.

 

There's tracker on 1 website I use, the others are less frequent so some may not have it.

 

The 6 week issue was the purpose of the original question, but only since, in this case, it was critical to define the period to determine if the job was going to get done before Christmas break.

 

It seems there still is some disagreement about the actual 42/43 day thing. Normally it wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't be on that tight a schedule as to have to worry about it... If it ends up being 2 weeks after the 42 days and nothing heard, I'd just crack on.

 

The "pally" thing, it's great if you can, but we're all busy people trying to get work done and it sometimes feels like all the sympathy is for the LA not the customer of the LA. I wouldn't get any sympathy if my council tax was late. I don't have any sympathy if a timed response is late.

 

I'm probably typing too fast and coming across as abrupt, not intentional, just a bad habit!!

[jaime bray]

I don't think you can do the typing inside a quote if you're on iPhone app for example (I may be wrong) but on a desk top, you quote, then just type inside the quote, using a different colour text makes it stand out from the original.

 

There's tracker on 1 website I use, the others are less frequent so some may not have it.

 

The 6 week issue was the purpose of the original question, but only since, in this case, it was critical to define the period to determine if the job was going to get done before Christmas break.

 

It seems there still is some disagreement about the actual 42/43 day thing. Normally it wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't be on that tight a schedule as to have to worry about it... If it ends up being 2 weeks after the 42 days and nothing heard, I'd just crack on.

 

The "pally" thing, it's great if you can, but we're all busy people trying to get work done and it sometimes feels like all the sympathy is for the LA not the customer of the LA. I wouldn't get any sympathy if my council tax was late. I don't have any sympathy if a timed response is late.

 

I'm probably typing too fast and coming across as abrupt, not intentional, just a bad habit!!

 

I will email the planning team every hour tomorrow to get an idea about the tracker system. Should help reduce their workload, maybe not this side of Christmas but certainly over the next twenty years it will with my applications

 

No dramas regarding typing to fast, it doesn't come across as abrupt. No need to explain, don't get pally haha