Paddy1000111

It's more the feel and use of plastic. Plastic degrades, aluminium doesn't. Plastic cracks when hit, aluminium doesn't. Plastic insulates heat, aluminium soaks it up. There's a reason why stihl pro saws use aluminium for a lot of components rather than plastic. No matter how high quality the plastic or how much glass fibre its re-enforced with it just can't take abuse like aluminium. Look at 200T's they get tonnes of abuse, handles snapped, av mounts snapped, fuel tanks cracked, chainbrakes snapped, covers cracked and melted, oil eating into plastics etc. Barely ever seen cracked crankcases (not saying it doesn't happen because I know it does) but if you buy a heavily used 200t you can bag on binning half the plastic parts due to cracks, stripped threads and other damage. On the battery front you can get 20Ah 22.2v high output batteries that weigh 2.5kg you would need two... The new 881 is 8.5hp and weighs in at 14.24kg with the 41 bar... If they made one with that 13hp motor and gave it the above battery we are up to 7.5kg. That leaves just under 7kg for casing, oil, an esc and a bar which is more than enough. Now we have a 13hp (65% more power) "882E" that will probably weigh less than it's petrol older brother.

That's the thing... no company has come out with a game changer of any sorts. The Stihl battery saw is no different to the makita battery saw except it's orange and everything is a bit more flush and sexy looking. Makita has nailed the battery thing I think, practical batteries that fit all the tools and are comparatively well priced at roughly £60 for a 5ah battery and >£30 for a charger. I appreciate they are 18v and you have to use two. The problem in my opinion with battery gear at the moment is it's all very plasticy and flimsy. The batteries weigh a lot and so do the motors so they have to cut weight everywhere they can to make the swap to the battery tools more appealing. It leaves them feeling cheap and sounding cheap which when they cost almost the same as a 201T it isn't a hard choice for me. I've seen saws that have been dropped from trees and they are bruised but not irreparable most of the time. You drop a heavy chunk of plastic and it's obliterated on the ground with wires everywhere and a battery on fire... They need to work on a way to reduce the weight of the components (lighter battery units etc) to allow the unit to be made from aluminium. Imagine a 200t but the insides are replaced with a motor and the fuel tank is replaced with a battery. Aluminium casing etc. you would think that by the time you remove the carb, the exhaust, the head, engine components etc you would save enough weight to keep an aluminium case. Aluminium casing would also help in the heat dissipation field too From my experience of hobby RC the brushless motors are amazing and far exceeded the nitro stuff and I'm sure back in the day the nitro guys scoffed at having an electric heli but now look what you can buy. RC motors that go up into the 100,000rpm range. Motors that can supply over 13hp and are only 9cm long and 10cm wide and weigh 2.5kg. plus the high rpm motors sound like jet engines when they're running. the battery tools sound like a B&Q 240v saw... There's tonnes of potential for some amazing stuff to come out, I just feel like the tech is moving very fast and the saw companies are running very slow...

I'm not adverse to batteries at all. I'm all for the idea really, less noise, more torque, ease of use, not having to go and get petrol. I just don't think we're at the point of getting rid of petrol saws in place of battery kit. The technology isn't at the point. Stihl has both which works, why cancel your petrol models for a battery only approach?

If you want torque, try a hydraulic chainsaw run from a big diesel hydraulic pump ?. One thing they haven't covered with this battery thing an is a big concern is cold and heat. Take a battery and use it all day in the snow until it's flat then it gets freezing cold in truck or on a stump and it will kill it. Take a battery and sit it in a cold garage then cut some chunky wood so you pull a load of amps and it will damage it. Ever seen one of those batteries get hot in use then left in a hot place? They go thermonuclear... Chargers have been known to explode before too... I've had a shed burn down because of a battery charging that's failed!

Okay I apologise, apart from nuclear and wind we're burning everything we can including coal to run a saw with additional steps ?

The issues with the 500i are the issues I would be worried about with the electric saws. More torque, more speed, less structure, smaller bearings without a continuous feed of oil.... Well, angle grinders are a different tool, they have their own built in safety in the fact you would be doing well to stall a grinder during use. I have seen a lot of burnt out drills though and considering how often a chainsaw gets stalled in the cut and how hack handed some people are with chainsaws I don't think it will be long before there's a smell of magic smoke. Only way to combat it is to have a built in stall cut out based on amps but DeWalt have that already in their 10.8v drills and I've seen tonnes of them burnt up. As you know that's the issue with electrics, load goes up, amps go up, resistance goes up, heat goes up, speed goes down, ventilation goes down and eventually the tool goes down... Especially when you have a heavy handed user who thinks their tool is faulty as it keeps cutting out but they need to get the job done! I just think they currently have a long way to go.

I agree completely, I just mean that when you take esc's, components etc and put them in small package like a chainsaw then heat and vibration is an issue. I've seen a lot of burnt out esc's or ones that have an error as they're a computer. They also suffer from heat dissipation. To combat the vibration you end up hot snotting wiring and stuff so it's not easily replaceable. I've also seen a lot of compact high power motors toast bearings as there's no oiling system. I want to see electric chainsaws. For a climbing saw it's a definite advantage. I just feel the tech has a long way to go yet. Making things modular so you can swap out a motor easily, improving on the build quality and getting rid of the plastics so they are as hardy as the current pro saws. It will be interesting to see the long term on hard use Stihl electric saws. I just don't think there's enough out there yet to create a educated opinion. There's not a lot in the hands of Arborists in comparison to other saws. People still haven't formed an opinion on the 500i long term. We're still in gen 1...

I've read a lot recently about that. The current national grid not being able to support the amount of current draw from everyone charging their Tesla's if everyone had an electric car. Let alone me plugging in 6 Makita batteries, 4 stihl chargers, my phone etc etc....

Oh yea, don't get me wrong. My origional qualification was as an aircraft engineer and I built RC helicopters and drones as a hobby. I just know that when you're talking about potentiometers, esc's, battery cells, motor windings and a tonne of sensors things can not just be hard to find but get expensive fast. We've quickly gone from a rough running chainsaw being spark, fuel, air, compression related to being dodgy cells, dodgy connections, faulty potentiometers, failed esc's, bad motor windings, all sorts. I have an electrical workshop and its not new to me, I just feel that it's a whole new skillset to most Arborists and what would have been a quick spark plug change becomes a disassembly and fault finding on these news saws. That's made even harder by the electric saws not being so modular. Get a guy who can rebuild an ms200t and then ask him to rebuild a Dyson hoover, it's not the same. I'm not saying that people don't make money drilling holes or grinding. I just mean you don't see a company that offers only drilling with a hand drill... Or a contractor and all they do is grind with a 9" grinder.

One thing I've noticed is that they have battery powered all sorts of tools but none of the trades that they apply to rely on that tool alone. No one says they are a hand driller as a career or a 9" angle grinder pilot... If you're an arborist you rely on one tool to make you money and you use it nearly all day every day. They haven't covered that with battery stuff. Long term lubrication, quick refilling, easy repairs.... Everyone got very upset about a chainsaw having a digital carb but no-one batts an eyelid when they say that the whole chainsaw is digital and without oscilloscopes, dmms and a very good background in electrics then they are at the hands of a dealer... One thing that is missing out of this is the power generation. We don't have much green energy and you're just burning coal to fuel a saw with additional steps? ?

I wouldn't mind it going battery as long as the battery tech improved and the price reduced. I really fancy one of the Stihl top handle battery saws. Good batteries come at a cost, that will drop drastically over time. Only thing is charging times etc. You can refill a chainsaw and just keep going, how many battery packs would you need for a days work? How many charges will they take before they are kaput? At the moment the batteries aren't hardy enough in my opinion and they cost a tonne to replace. Also, as far as I'm aware there's nothing to replace big saws yet. How would they power a 661/881 size saw? Also the quality on battery saws needs to improve. I get that they make them light but every battery chainsaw is made from a tonne of plastic and they all have that hollow plastic rumble sound reminiscent of a b&q plug in chainsaw...

at 2500kg+ the conversion it would be ideal for transporting leaves or small twigs ?

?*Desperately starts lubricating butterfly pinions*

I know what you mean about lemons. I have a Volvo that's cost thousands in repairs and his been nothing but a PITA!

Sounds like you've had a bad time... It's all personal experience at the end of the day. So far my MS261c-m hasn't given me any trouble in 3 years ownership. Updated the M-tronic system myself for £13 with a new fuel solenoid, filter etc etc. Say you have a 201T and the mtronic fails and there's an issue then a full kit from stihl is under £50 for a new flywheel, carb and ignition unit. Mtronic isn't the super brainbox that everyone made it out to be and it's worked well for me so far. I have a powerful saw that basically cares for itself. On the front of Stihl repairs I don't have any experience with it. I went in with my 200t and they fixed it FOC, never needed it outside of that. On the other hand I have repaired a Makita blower for someone that took over £70 of parts and I had to hunt around as parts availability was nil. I'm not dissing makita, it's horses for courses... I know what I like and where my loyalties lie from my experience. When I went to buy a Makita there was less support and it's not as easy getting parts. They just seemed like a compromise to me, not a cheapo saw but not the high spec I expect of a pro saw. Anyway, this guy wanted advice on what to get, I would go with the Makita

Well, then I live in ignorance. Like I said, apart from picking one up in the store, finding it plasticy and putting it back, I don't have any experience with them. I don't take which are the no.1 selling chainsaws into consideration personally. If you type in UK no.1 selling chainsaw they try and sell you a 1.3kw Einhell followed by a bosch plug in. Other websites suggest a P1PE, a no name 50cc chainsaw or a hyundai. Doesn't mean I'm going to buy a load of extension leads or my carb adjustment screwdriver set for those weird Chinese carbs before heading up a tree. I'm not saying Makita/Dolmar aren't any good at all. I'm sure they're fantastic saws. I'm just saying that if I'm buying something to make money from I'm going to buy a Stihl or Husky just because their pro range is tried and tested, they're well designed with there's loads of info online, massive parts availability, loads of tech support so I can just take it into a shop and have it fixed and a good resell value if I need it gone... When you compare a 6100 with a stihl Ms362 (same CC class, the makita being 2cc more) the MS362 is more powerful, Weighs less, it's quieter and it has considerably lower vibration levels (which matters if this is your career). I'm sure they're great saws but being the best selling in Germany doesn't make them the best on the market.

Hence why I've never been a Makita man. I'm sure they are great saws but they look a bit plasticy and the on/off switch, fuel caps etc all look and feel very home-owner. I'm also not a fan of the anti-theft green on a saw, that being said I have a complete range of makita LXT tools (including their battery chainsaw) and they're awesome. Like I said, I'm sure they're great saws but they don't give me "the fizz" that Stihl do...

Dcs6800i has a better suggestion to be honest. The Makita range aren't my forté

Or in a pinch, a 261cm with a 24" bar and full skip chain? Budget friendly and will do all the other fire wood you ask it to?

And using my high level photoshop skill.... Remove the red, thin the yellow?

This oak looks heavily weighted over the clients house from the photos... Can't you cut a good amount off and thin what's left? Leave it a few years and rinse and repeat? If you take some height off as it looks a lot taller on the right than the left and then remove 3 d's and thin out what's left then you're doing the best of both worlds? Keeps the council happy as you have left a visually balanced tree and you leave the customer with a lot more of an airy tree that not just lets more light in but is less likely to dump a branch in his garden?

Here comes the oil debate... ? Castor oil was always used for racing because it left a waxy deposit so when the engine was on rundown with the throttle closed during corners etc it was still protected. Only thing is that deposit left the engines very dirty which wasn't an issue for engines stripped all the time in karting and stuff. Chainsaws are either idle or flat out so don't need that run down protection. Anyway, back to the 661... I'm looking at buying one soon as I need a big saw hence I'm interested to see how the mtronic system update goes

Interesting, I borescoped my 261c-m last week and the bore was very clean after <50+ hours use!

A few people have mentioned Stihl Ultra. Without hi-jacking this thread into a OPE forum oil debate, are people having issues with it?

I really wish I deleted the base gasket on my 200t but now its up and running perfectly I don't want to ?? I'm going to install a threaded insert designed for thermoplastics. 6mm course thread on the outside, M4 in the centre then just use the M4 screw fittings. I don't want to install a bigger thread and go through the same garbage again!