Paddy1000111

Well this is the issue that I am going through... I only have a 261 at the moment. I need to get a 661 anyway but now is not the time. I realised I don't have anything big enough whilst looking through ecomill. I was hoping to get a 25" .325 skip chain and just go slow as it's a one off but like you say I'm going to be losing the length with the clamps... So now for the setup I'll be looking at £1200 with the saw then. I guess I'll go back to the backup. Anyone fancy some milling ?. One section is about 12ft long and 24" across. The other is about 10ft long and about 14" across?

Hi Everyone, I'm sure this question has been asked before but I am either too dumb to find it on here or google or I'm not looking in the right place. I recently cut down a 50 year old chestnut for some family and they wanted to have it milled so they can do something with it in the future instead of feeding it into the fire. I don't own a chainsaw mill so I am looking for the cheapest option possible as whilst I love woodwork I won't be using it often. I don't however want to by something that's so rubbish it's a pain to use. I may use it in the future or get into chainsaw milling but for now I need something that will mill 23-25" timber? Failing this, is there anyone in the Dorset/Bridport area that fancies doing some cash in hand milling? Should be a pretty quick job!

I agree with everyone else. Get rid of it. Plus if you did try to prune it back as the customer asked and it looks crap then you will have your name to that for all to see. "I remember the guy who came and trimmed that tree across the road. Now it's an eyesore every day!"

Whilst the tech is cool we won't see anything to replace the chainsaw unless some new tech comes in. All the plasmas or lasers etc involve heat which when we live in a world where a saw can't emit a spark we won't see any of that in this industry. Closest is water jet but we would have to carry tankers full of water ?

If you want to get into gardening then the royal horticultural society book on pruning and training is well worth buying. It's sub £15 and has pictures for pretty much all the UK tree, shrub and flower types showing how to prune them, what time of year, how to fix bad pruning etc etc. Its worth every penny!

As above I would take it out, grind the stump out and then plant a new healthy tree there instead. Once trees are that Ill they will just slowly die off over the years ahead anyway

Imagine the health and safety on that! Go to fell a tree and circumcise a guy on the other hill ?

Bare in mind that battery was just an example of a random lipo battery. There's loads of different battery chemistry's and sizes to chose from. Also that motor isn't the ideal one. It was only around 7000 rpm max and bla bla bla. It was just an example of what's available. You can't compare the power in fuel to power in batteries. The battery power is rated on usable power and the motors are very, very efficient. If you have a 100ah battery and a motor that pulls 100A it will run for an hour... Petrol motors are massively inefficient turning petrol into heat into longitudinal force into rotary force and then back to longitudinal force in the chain... You would have to work out how much fuel an 881 burns and how much work that saw did which would only be possible by hooking up a Dyno to the saw and giving it a constant load. The point I was making is not "how hard is it" but more of a point that the technology is there, they have the opportunity. It's just overpriced and not well executed for the money you put into it

Oh yea, I know it's not right yet. I'm just saying we aren't far away. The spec sheet for the motor was 56V@190A maximum draw.

Standard lay up should be vac bagged/compressed too. Also removes some excess resin in the process. There's really no big difference between processes pre-preg/not pre-preg, at least in the AC world. Pre preg tends to be easier to lay, removes operator error, has more working time and hence be more uniform in finish to remove stress raisers, the weights are also more exact hence why it's used for rotor blade manufacture etc. Non pre-preg is usually messier, more chance of FOD in the lay, large space for operator error in mixing ratios and material to epoxy ratio, if the mixing ratio is wrong and/or it's in a hot area it can go thermonuclear and overheat, more chance for some areas to be thicker than others, hard to do large parts as stuff dries before others, if you mix hardener and accelerator instead of resin/hardener then accelerator you blow stuff up, lots to go wrong. The basic process is all the same though, get the right material, check it's in date, ensure everything is degreased and sterile, cut the stuff to the right size, lay it up, vac bag it, wait for it to dry, get it NDT'd... Anyway, we're getting off topic here. ?

Sort of yes, sort of no. Only difference between lay up and pre preg is the mat on pre preg is pre-impregnated with epoxy and his heat cured as opposed to lay up which is obviously time cured. Pre-preg is only really stronger as the ratio of material to epoxy is dead on where regular lay up is more of a skill. It's all damaged in the same way. overstress and impact damage.

I suppose so, Carbon fibre bicycles are also prone to cracking and delamination though. Aluminium frames rarely fail and tend to bend rather than break. My old man was a paramedic. He had a guy on a road bike going down a hill and hit a pothole. The carbon forks were either already damaged or the shock damaged them. They split and the guy went face first onto the tarmac and ground away the whole bottom side of his face. That put me off carbon forks. My previous job to this was commercial aircraft repair. Fiberglass/carbon components delaminated and cracked all the time. Aluminium components only really failed from corrosion and that was caused most of the time by improper grounding or no surface protection. The floor panels on aircraft were composite with a honeycomb layer. Any little dent or hit caused delamination and anything over the size of a golfball was a new panel which were well into the thousands in some cases. They also didn't really use plastic for anything on aircraft minus windows and nylon bushes which says a lot about its capabilities. even the interior trim was fiberglass. I don't hate plastic, I just feel that when I am paying £600 for a saw I want something more than a hollow sounding thin plastic toy that feels like it came from the lidl special weekly deals isle

It all depends on what you google... "Glock frame crack" brings up tonnes of results, look at images. ms200t crankcase crack brings up pretty much zero. Not many pro saws have a lot of plastic. That's the difference between the pro and prosumer tools of the same engine size and why there's a price difference. Stihl bin off the plastic sprocket covers etc and fit aluminium ones because they are stronger and last longer. Personally I've not broken any saws under normal loads but I have a built in mechanical sympathy that not everyone has. I did the other day strip the thread out of my ms200t fuel tank even though I baby the thread in so it's aligned and then torque it with a torque wrench because I know that threads into plastic are 90% of the time complete garbage. What I mean though is when I have seen saws or bought spares/repairs ones the bits that are broken are plastic. I've never had a spares or repairs chainsaw that has had a broken crankcase made from ally. Also the pro saws are modular in the sense that you can remove a small bit to access something, and if you drop a saw or it gets hit by a falling log or run over or something stupid then it's usually a small bit that breaks and can be replaced for a few quid. When I rebuilt my 200t I binned a load of the plastic parts due to cracks and damage and the aluminium got re-powdercoated. The electric chainsaws that are coming out at the moment are monocoque in construction which means that repairing it is more like pulling apart a laptop than a chainsaw with everything held together with course screws, clips and mastic.

It's more the feel and use of plastic. Plastic degrades, aluminium doesn't. Plastic cracks when hit, aluminium doesn't. Plastic insulates heat, aluminium soaks it up. There's a reason why stihl pro saws use aluminium for a lot of components rather than plastic. No matter how high quality the plastic or how much glass fibre its re-enforced with it just can't take abuse like aluminium. Look at 200T's they get tonnes of abuse, handles snapped, av mounts snapped, fuel tanks cracked, chainbrakes snapped, covers cracked and melted, oil eating into plastics etc. Barely ever seen cracked crankcases (not saying it doesn't happen because I know it does) but if you buy a heavily used 200t you can bag on binning half the plastic parts due to cracks, stripped threads and other damage. On the battery front you can get 20Ah 22.2v high output batteries that weigh 2.5kg you would need two... The new 881 is 8.5hp and weighs in at 14.24kg with the 41 bar... If they made one with that 13hp motor and gave it the above battery we are up to 7.5kg. That leaves just under 7kg for casing, oil, an esc and a bar which is more than enough. Now we have a 13hp (65% more power) "882E" that will probably weigh less than it's petrol older brother.

That's the thing... no company has come out with a game changer of any sorts. The Stihl battery saw is no different to the makita battery saw except it's orange and everything is a bit more flush and sexy looking. Makita has nailed the battery thing I think, practical batteries that fit all the tools and are comparatively well priced at roughly £60 for a 5ah battery and >£30 for a charger. I appreciate they are 18v and you have to use two. The problem in my opinion with battery gear at the moment is it's all very plasticy and flimsy. The batteries weigh a lot and so do the motors so they have to cut weight everywhere they can to make the swap to the battery tools more appealing. It leaves them feeling cheap and sounding cheap which when they cost almost the same as a 201T it isn't a hard choice for me. I've seen saws that have been dropped from trees and they are bruised but not irreparable most of the time. You drop a heavy chunk of plastic and it's obliterated on the ground with wires everywhere and a battery on fire... They need to work on a way to reduce the weight of the components (lighter battery units etc) to allow the unit to be made from aluminium. Imagine a 200t but the insides are replaced with a motor and the fuel tank is replaced with a battery. Aluminium casing etc. you would think that by the time you remove the carb, the exhaust, the head, engine components etc you would save enough weight to keep an aluminium case. Aluminium casing would also help in the heat dissipation field too From my experience of hobby RC the brushless motors are amazing and far exceeded the nitro stuff and I'm sure back in the day the nitro guys scoffed at having an electric heli but now look what you can buy. RC motors that go up into the 100,000rpm range. Motors that can supply over 13hp and are only 9cm long and 10cm wide and weigh 2.5kg. plus the high rpm motors sound like jet engines when they're running. the battery tools sound like a B&Q 240v saw... There's tonnes of potential for some amazing stuff to come out, I just feel like the tech is moving very fast and the saw companies are running very slow...

I'm not adverse to batteries at all. I'm all for the idea really, less noise, more torque, ease of use, not having to go and get petrol. I just don't think we're at the point of getting rid of petrol saws in place of battery kit. The technology isn't at the point. Stihl has both which works, why cancel your petrol models for a battery only approach?

If you want torque, try a hydraulic chainsaw run from a big diesel hydraulic pump ?. One thing they haven't covered with this battery thing an is a big concern is cold and heat. Take a battery and use it all day in the snow until it's flat then it gets freezing cold in truck or on a stump and it will kill it. Take a battery and sit it in a cold garage then cut some chunky wood so you pull a load of amps and it will damage it. Ever seen one of those batteries get hot in use then left in a hot place? They go thermonuclear... Chargers have been known to explode before too... I've had a shed burn down because of a battery charging that's failed!

Okay I apologise, apart from nuclear and wind we're burning everything we can including coal to run a saw with additional steps ?

The issues with the 500i are the issues I would be worried about with the electric saws. More torque, more speed, less structure, smaller bearings without a continuous feed of oil.... Well, angle grinders are a different tool, they have their own built in safety in the fact you would be doing well to stall a grinder during use. I have seen a lot of burnt out drills though and considering how often a chainsaw gets stalled in the cut and how hack handed some people are with chainsaws I don't think it will be long before there's a smell of magic smoke. Only way to combat it is to have a built in stall cut out based on amps but DeWalt have that already in their 10.8v drills and I've seen tonnes of them burnt up. As you know that's the issue with electrics, load goes up, amps go up, resistance goes up, heat goes up, speed goes down, ventilation goes down and eventually the tool goes down... Especially when you have a heavy handed user who thinks their tool is faulty as it keeps cutting out but they need to get the job done! I just think they currently have a long way to go.

I agree completely, I just mean that when you take esc's, components etc and put them in small package like a chainsaw then heat and vibration is an issue. I've seen a lot of burnt out esc's or ones that have an error as they're a computer. They also suffer from heat dissipation. To combat the vibration you end up hot snotting wiring and stuff so it's not easily replaceable. I've also seen a lot of compact high power motors toast bearings as there's no oiling system. I want to see electric chainsaws. For a climbing saw it's a definite advantage. I just feel the tech has a long way to go yet. Making things modular so you can swap out a motor easily, improving on the build quality and getting rid of the plastics so they are as hardy as the current pro saws. It will be interesting to see the long term on hard use Stihl electric saws. I just don't think there's enough out there yet to create a educated opinion. There's not a lot in the hands of Arborists in comparison to other saws. People still haven't formed an opinion on the 500i long term. We're still in gen 1...

I've read a lot recently about that. The current national grid not being able to support the amount of current draw from everyone charging their Tesla's if everyone had an electric car. Let alone me plugging in 6 Makita batteries, 4 stihl chargers, my phone etc etc....

Oh yea, don't get me wrong. My origional qualification was as an aircraft engineer and I built RC helicopters and drones as a hobby. I just know that when you're talking about potentiometers, esc's, battery cells, motor windings and a tonne of sensors things can not just be hard to find but get expensive fast. We've quickly gone from a rough running chainsaw being spark, fuel, air, compression related to being dodgy cells, dodgy connections, faulty potentiometers, failed esc's, bad motor windings, all sorts. I have an electrical workshop and its not new to me, I just feel that it's a whole new skillset to most Arborists and what would have been a quick spark plug change becomes a disassembly and fault finding on these news saws. That's made even harder by the electric saws not being so modular. Get a guy who can rebuild an ms200t and then ask him to rebuild a Dyson hoover, it's not the same. I'm not saying that people don't make money drilling holes or grinding. I just mean you don't see a company that offers only drilling with a hand drill... Or a contractor and all they do is grind with a 9" grinder.

One thing I've noticed is that they have battery powered all sorts of tools but none of the trades that they apply to rely on that tool alone. No one says they are a hand driller as a career or a 9" angle grinder pilot... If you're an arborist you rely on one tool to make you money and you use it nearly all day every day. They haven't covered that with battery stuff. Long term lubrication, quick refilling, easy repairs.... Everyone got very upset about a chainsaw having a digital carb but no-one batts an eyelid when they say that the whole chainsaw is digital and without oscilloscopes, dmms and a very good background in electrics then they are at the hands of a dealer... One thing that is missing out of this is the power generation. We don't have much green energy and you're just burning coal to fuel a saw with additional steps? ?

I wouldn't mind it going battery as long as the battery tech improved and the price reduced. I really fancy one of the Stihl top handle battery saws. Good batteries come at a cost, that will drop drastically over time. Only thing is charging times etc. You can refill a chainsaw and just keep going, how many battery packs would you need for a days work? How many charges will they take before they are kaput? At the moment the batteries aren't hardy enough in my opinion and they cost a tonne to replace. Also, as far as I'm aware there's nothing to replace big saws yet. How would they power a 661/881 size saw? Also the quality on battery saws needs to improve. I get that they make them light but every battery chainsaw is made from a tonne of plastic and they all have that hollow plastic rumble sound reminiscent of a b&q plug in chainsaw...

at 2500kg+ the conversion it would be ideal for transporting leaves or small twigs ?