Chris at eden

Unless you are an orangutan this wont work. 🙂 The stick needs to be the same length as the distance from you shoulder to your knuckles for the trigonometry to works out. I use the same method though for measuring heights. But i use a disto to measure to the tree rather than pacing as a measure a lot of tree so need it to be quick.

I think you have a bigger problem here than you realise and i am not being some kind of a tree hugger. Just to clear up the timing. If you damaged the tree before the TPO was made then there is no criminal act. If the damage was done after then you will be lucky to get out of this without a criminal record. Someone mention a £20k fine but this is incorrect, the max fine for willful destruction is now unlimited even on summary conviction (i.e. determined by a magistrate). Then you have the potential to be hit with proceeds of crime, court costs, and replacement planting. I also wouldn't be entirely comfortable with the only person that can prove that you did the damage before the order was made is the tree officer, the bloke who is going to try to prosecute you potentially. If it was me, i would have taken a photo myself and emailed it to myself so it is date and time stamped. As to why the council can come onto your land and make a TPO. They can do this as there is a piece of statutory legislation that has been in place since 1947 that allows it. They have a right of access and if you try to prevent them it is a £1k fine. This is just a fact, the analogy you use about interfering with your neighbours land isn't relevant. If you want to build a big extension on your house you will need planning consent. Its the same legislation. But assuming the damage was done first. I don't see why the tree officer would have TPOd the tree just to let you fell it. If it isn't dead, and there isn't an immediate risk then the works are not exempt so you will need to submit an app. As the app is based on condition it will need a tree report and i dont see them accepting one from the tree surgeon you mentioned just saying fell. If you send that in then they will just refuse it saying there is no consideration of the options. You will then go to appeal via the planning inspectorate (PINS). The LPA can take 8 weeks to determine the app. You then have 28 days to appeal and get the appeal registered. This takes you up to 3 months. The PINS deadline is 27 weeks which will take you up to 9 months best case scenario. The PINS are nowhere near meeting their deadlines, i have just had one back that took 11 months just for the appeal, 14 months in total. Not good. Then, you may not win. If the TO says you could look at other options such as bridge grafting then the inspector may agree. The TO will most likely have a degree in Arboriculture and the PINS inspector will rely on this in part as they wont be a tree expert. They will look at the expert evidence supplied by the TO and you. As such you would be better getting your report from a consultant. Problem you will have is that the consultant should really look at all the options which will include trying to save the tree. The TO could then say why not go for this option. As i said i am not trying to be a tree hugger here, I'm just giving you the facts. As a consultant i wouldn't take this on either. I am not going to get into the whole debate as to whether what you have done is wrong or not. But, tree consultants have to work with tree officers all the time and so its good to have a good working relationship with them. If they are going to be picky with all of your future reports that you submit for planning because of a one off £500 report, its not worth the hassle. The fact that the neighbours don't like the tree is not even remotely relevant. TPOs are always made when trees are under threat and so against the wishes of the owner and neighbouring properties. Again just a fact worth sharing. I have heard loads of people say they put the TPO on the tree without my permission. That is how it works. Replacement planting. If the tree had died and become dangerous they would probably accept a standard as a replacement. £400-ish. They will almost certainly push for something bigger in this instance. Think thousands, not hundreds. As i said, not a simple or quick as you may think. The TO can easily delay the felling of the tree for well over a year. They dont even need to confirm it for 6 months and you cant register an appeal until the TPO has been confirmed. You are now up to 20 months. Not saying this will happen but there is no reason why it couldn't. This gives plenty of time to see how the tree responds. You need to get some proper advice on this realistically. You cant get a proper assessment by posting a pic on here. If it falls and injures someone in the meantime you will be liable. Irrespective of the TPO. The only way you can shift any liability toward the council is with an application supported by an expert report. Note. i have not visited the site or inspected the tree and so the above comments are for information only. They must not be considered as professional advice under any circumstances.

You don’t side line assumed facts but you do separate them from facts. Facts are something you observe yourself. Assumed fact are something others tell you. So, you can state the condition of the tree as a fact. But if someone tells you they have seen it declining for years, that is an assumed fact. If they tell you it fell on Tuesday night, that is assumed. If you see it fall then that is a fact. i was doing the expert witness training with Bond Solon before COVID kicked in and it’s from that. They say all reports have the potential to end up in court so make them court compliant. If you make a statement as if it’s something you know for sure and it ends up being something the neighbour told you, the barrister will love it. They will hammer you for misrepresenting yourself and question your competence at which point it’s game over. facts, assumed facts, and opinions are all different things.

Not ignoring him Mick. But in report writing terms it’s called an assumed fact. It’s isn’t something others should comment on with complete authority. It should be separated out. He may well be right though. But, I don’t think you can make a proper diagnosis by driving past it in a van. Particularly as the house was built 16 years ago, and the drive at least 10. Again, assumed facts. i would only advise based on a full inspection. My original advice to the OP was to get a report. It still is and for all of the trees, not just that one. I would be looking for a financial contribution from the seller for any required works before exchanging contracts.

Google - Asda store in Cannock and have a look at the London Planes on the car park. They installed them into linear planting bays all joined up so they have good rooting environment. They are good sized trees now and about 20 years old. This isn’t the norm though. I do planning consultations regularly and they always want to put trees into the smallest pits possible. That is the main problem with supermarket planting schemes. Not the tree sizes. That said, I always recommend 10-12s for planting as they establish quicker and catch up over time.

Dave Dowson from tree life wrote the syllabus. He knows more about the course than literally anyone else. I did level 6 with them and can’t recommend them highly enough.

Yes I agree. But the chap wants to try to save it. It’s impossible to say how likely it is that it can be saved without seeing it. it could have Kretz or Merip in which case it’s doomed. Or it could be compaction related which could possibly be fixed. Canopy looks pretty naf in the pic though. I did a research project on plant health care in the UK back in 2014 for my L6 dip. It’s a huge industry in the US but it’s rare in the UK. It’s picked up a bit since but not much. The number of times I have seen crown reduction recommended for compaction issues where there is no risk is ridiculous. For risk management fair enough but it won’t fix the underlying issue.

You can possibly look at bite infusion injections and de-compaction / mulching. Depends how far it has gone and what the underlying cause is.

I looked at a tree a couple of weeks ago to give a second opinion. A tree surgeon had knocked the door and told the owner that his pine had died and needed to be felled. I told him it hasn’t, it’s a larch, not a pine and it’s supposed to lose its needles in the winter. Then last week I did a development site survey. The resident said his tree surgeon had told him his Elm had Dutch Elm Disease which was a shame as the house was named after the tree, Elm House it was called. I told him it was nonsense as the tree was a maple. Same tree surgeon told him he needs a MEWP to take out 15ft Lawsons Cypress as it has BT wires through it. there are some really good tree surgeons out there, but also some bad ones. Consultants as well to be fair.

P.s. make sure they include risk of structural damage to the building. Not just tree assessment.

You should get a report from a tree consultant really. Beech don’t respond well to reduction and they may not even need it. I do mortgage reports all the time where the valuation surveyor said they need reducing. More often than not they don’t. But then if there is a risk they may do. Get them looked at properly. It is in your interests.

Neville Faye from tree work environmental practice is the big player from a management point of view. I’ve been asked to do one management plan in the last 6 or 7 years. Doesn’t come up much but then I don’t really advertise it. From a report writing point of view there is money to be made in it as it is specialist. I would think the tree work is the same. Have you been to any of the ATF meetings? Might be worth a look.

Done. Good luck.

Are you doing forestry or Arb?

Crown reduction is light pruning by nature, it isn’t 40%. 40% is topping, bad practice really. You have virtually no chance of getting the council to do that. Or, allowing you to do that. Unless the tree is dangerous, or causing structural damage. This isn’t me being some kind of tree hugger, it is just the way it is. The owner doesn’t have to spend large amounts of money to prevent shade or leaf fall. Housing associations are not usually the council in my experience so if it is a HA, you may have more chance. If the council get wind of it though they may TPO it. I would be surprised if the tree isn’t inspected if it is owned by the council. Best practice is proactive inspections so you wouldn’t really know if and when they are done.

Dave from Tree life wrote the qualifications for the level 2, 4 and 6 for ABC. There is no one better placed to advise. I did the level 6 with them between 2012 and 2014 and the old tech cert before that. The biggest thing dave used to say was download the rules of combination from the ABC website. Look at the assessment criteria and learning outcomes and make sure you meet them fully. But, don’t go over board and off on a tangent. You won’t get extra marks for answering stuff that isn’t in the question. For example. Take note of what the question is asking. If it says list then just list, don’t describe. If it says evaluate, that is just pro and cons, and then form a conclusion. The first time I did a critical evaluation at level 6 I waffled for pages going backward and forward before getting to the point. When Dave marked it, I passed but in the feedback he said, you got there in the end but you could be more succinct. The next one I did I bullet pointed the pros and cons (like old fashioned exam technique) then wrote a conclusion and justification in a few paragraphs. It took me a quarter of the time and covered all the same stuff and still passed. The feedback said - well done, much better! There is no word count other than for the research project at level 6. But, with all the ABC qualifications you must meet 100% of the assessment criteria. Best way to do that is to download to rules of combination and work with it. Good luck everyone. cheers Chris

You always have a band anyway. If you apply for 2m you can reduce up to 2m but it may be less. The LPA will likely condition 3998 which means drop crotching and this may reduce the amount you can prune. I personally think It’s better to say ‘by no more than 2m’ but I have seen loads of apps that do it your way.

Unless the notice relates to a tree that is dead or imposes an immediate risk. In this case section 213 requires a replacement. Granted, this would probably be more of a five day or retrospective notice.

It’s from BS3998. It’s states that reduction should be specified in linear metres of the material removed and of that remaining. They are supposed to refer them back to you if they are vague which to be honest percentages are. If you take 40% off instead of 25% how will they prove that. If you reduce a 20m tree down to 12m instead of 15m then that can be measured and enforced. Plus is it percentage it the tree height or branch extension. Percentages fall into reasonable doubt when it comes to enforcement. I know, thinning is as a percentage but there is no other way. I always take the whole refer back thing as meaning send you an email and ask you to spec in metres rather than send it back altogether. I’m not convinced that you validate 211 notices either. You acknowledge receipt. That’s a grey area for me. It’s bonkers though anyway, if it’s a nice tree in a CA then you would think they would just TPO it. 25% is way outside of BS3998. If it’s not worthy of a TPO then why bother making an issue out of it.

Some contracts such large council street tree pruning contracts only invite tenders from those that are AA approved. Also, many councils refer residents to the AA list if they are asked for a recommendation as most no longer have recommended lists of their own. It’s not that tree surgeons that are not on the list are bad, there are plenty of good ones. But, if you are on the list then chances are you are probably good and have been independently assessed to prove it. That is piece of mind for some folk. Plus, they send you some stickers for your truck. And a logo for the website.

QTRA is just a way of assessing risk but it is something some clients insist on. Housing associations and such. I’m sure you know this. Thing is, I do a lot of risk surveys now but only because I have picked up a couple of big national clients. If I didn’t have them it would be less than 20% of my work. 5837 is huge. The vast majority of new clients is 5837. I would say before 2 years ago 5837 was 70% of my work and risk was maybe 20%. Now it’s 45% for each. The rest is mortgage and damage assessment. If you are serious about surveying and consultancy then 5837 is big. It’s nice to mix it up as well. Cheers Chris.

Nice job for someone fresh out of college. Nice on CV. Then won’t stay long for £18k though.

It depends at what level you work at. Top expert witnesses are £180 an hour.

I charge management companies £500 ish a day. But it covers a lot more than just the surveying. If I use a subby I still go through it and edit and approve. Then there is advertising and all that, CPD, etc. My admin persons wage. It all adds up. They obviously add a bit on to that. I have one client where I am the third subby in the chain. £600 a day isn’t ridiculous.

As a starting point you will be looking at £150 a day. Up to around £200 but you will need L4 min for that. You would get 45p a mile on top for travel. I have a lad who does subby work for me at £200 a day plus travel. He has L6 and years experience as a TO. if you had L3 I could probably pass you a bit if work here and there. Can’t promise anything as we are covering everything at the moment but summer I am usually picking and choosing stuff. Not sure how COVID will impact either. I do quite a bit in Notts, Leicester and Northampton. Have you done 5837? QTRA?