Chris at eden

Some contracts such large council street tree pruning contracts only invite tenders from those that are AA approved. Also, many councils refer residents to the AA list if they are asked for a recommendation as most no longer have recommended lists of their own. It’s not that tree surgeons that are not on the list are bad, there are plenty of good ones. But, if you are on the list then chances are you are probably good and have been independently assessed to prove it. That is piece of mind for some folk. Plus, they send you some stickers for your truck. And a logo for the website.

QTRA is just a way of assessing risk but it is something some clients insist on. Housing associations and such. I’m sure you know this. Thing is, I do a lot of risk surveys now but only because I have picked up a couple of big national clients. If I didn’t have them it would be less than 20% of my work. 5837 is huge. The vast majority of new clients is 5837. I would say before 2 years ago 5837 was 70% of my work and risk was maybe 20%. Now it’s 45% for each. The rest is mortgage and damage assessment. If you are serious about surveying and consultancy then 5837 is big. It’s nice to mix it up as well. Cheers Chris.

Nice job for someone fresh out of college. Nice on CV. Then won’t stay long for £18k though.

It depends at what level you work at. Top expert witnesses are £180 an hour.

I charge management companies £500 ish a day. But it covers a lot more than just the surveying. If I use a subby I still go through it and edit and approve. Then there is advertising and all that, CPD, etc. My admin persons wage. It all adds up. They obviously add a bit on to that. I have one client where I am the third subby in the chain. £600 a day isn’t ridiculous.

As a starting point you will be looking at £150 a day. Up to around £200 but you will need L4 min for that. You would get 45p a mile on top for travel. I have a lad who does subby work for me at £200 a day plus travel. He has L6 and years experience as a TO. if you had L3 I could probably pass you a bit if work here and there. Can’t promise anything as we are covering everything at the moment but summer I am usually picking and choosing stuff. Not sure how COVID will impact either. I do quite a bit in Notts, Leicester and Northampton. Have you done 5837? QTRA?

To add to what Jon said, if it went to appeal and it could be shown the LPA had acted unreasonably, you would have a good case to put in for costs.

P.s. would you be working as a stubby sorting your own tax? Using your own insurance or theirs?

What other qualifications do you have? PTI is great but it would ideally be under pinned by an L3 qualification. Also, a lot of companies want risk assessed using QTRA. Where are you based? What areas can you cover?

The LPA don’t usually have to display site notices for TPO apps so by default neither do you. They should consider displaying notices where there is likely to be a lot of public interest. The only exception is when they are applying to themselves to work on their own trees. In this instance they must display site notices for at least 21 days. It is their responsibility though, not yours. That said and as paul said, it’s good to keep them on side. I have had this issue previously and have just phoned the client to explain and then put them in the post.

The tree man is universal. I get called the tree man more than anything else.

Level 2 qualifications are aimed at tree surgeons not surveyors. Entirely relevant to tree surgeons. I had L2 when I was working as a tree surgeon. You won’t get a decent surveying job with L2. I know what you are saying, the CS units are more important I agree, but there is no harm in having some academic grounding if that is your thing. L4 is cross over between tree surgeon and surveyor. It’s probably a bit much though unless you are doing a bit of both. It’s useful to know TPOs inside out though. You see some right nonsense on here that tree surgeons are checking because they have been told something by a TO. The one the other day about needing to apply to remove ivy springs to mind. It was actually being debated but it’s just nonsense. Also, UA5 is surveying, not tree surgery. Not sure I would call any of that UA stuff tree surgery.

The RFS is a level 2 qualification. Its realistically been superseded by the ABC level 2 Arb. Mainly because you can progress up to L4 and L6 as you get older. You could go to L4 ABC from RFS cert but they are not specifically designed to build on each other. Its used to go RFS cert, AA Tech Cert, and RFS Diploma in that order, same as the ABC go L2, L4, L6. Tech cert was replaced by ABC L4, and RFS dip was replaced by ABC L6. It was done like this because they didn't particularly flow well together. For some reason, even though they did the ABC L2, some folk are still delivering the RFS Cert. Mainly Myerscough, i suppose because they do foundation degrees and honours degree for the higher education stuff rather than L4 and L6 dip. I would say if you want a real top spec academic qualification for a tree surgeon you would be looking at L4 Diploma. Obviously, all your CS units on top of that. I know tree surgeons that have L4. They are pretty rare though. Like someone else said, you only need to be qualified for the tasks you are doing. This fully qualified thing is nonsense. No one is ever fully qualified. You will always find more training if you are that way inclined.

P.s. so it depends what you mean by Arb

Arboriculturist generally refers to consultants, surveyors and TOs. NTSG recommends these type of people being qualified to at least level 3 in Arb. That’s equivalent to A level. It isn’t a protected designation like architect or dentist unless you are a Chartered Arboriculturist. You will need level 5 (foundation degree) or 6 (honours degree) in most cases to be a chartered arb, plus you need to create a work log showing what you do, write a critical analysis, and attend a professional interview. You will also need CPD records of 60 hours over the last two years and will be expected to carry that on once chartered. I am probably 2/3rds through mine, it isn’t as bad as it sounds, it’s just finding the time to do it. I can’t turn away paid work to commit time. I can, I just don’t like to. Arborist is generally another term used for a tree surgeon. You just need your tickets, and balls of steel of course. Some have an academic background but you don’t have to. I had a level 2 arb when climbing in the 90s but only because I always planned on doing consultancy when I got too old to climb. Much respect to some of the old boys that still climb.

I’m not sure how it can be misinterpreted. It’s black and white in the regs and guidance. TPOs protect trees and trees only. Jules is correct, you cannot protect climbing plants with a TPO. Now if you damage a TPO tree while removing ivy that would be an issue. My approach would be let the council know that you are removing the ivy as they will get complaints from neighbours, I wouldn’t be submitting an app unless you need to prune the tree to get the ivy off. There is also no exemption for dangerous trees. The exemptions are; dead trees, deadwood within trees, and where there is an immediate risk of serious harm.

Kretz

Be careful with the term DBH. Its a forestry measurement at 1.3m, not relevant to BS5837. You may end up with over sized RPAs which is not ideal. Cheers Chris

You measure diameter at 1.5m above ground in mm, to the nearest 10mm. Diameter tapes will have diameter on one side and girth on the other. Multiply it by 12 for single stemmed trees and then use that as a radius (in metres). You should really be taking RPA measurements from annex D which bizarrely uses 25mm increments after asking you to measure to the nearest 10mm!!! Offset if site conditions require it. Don't over think it, it is that simple. Otherwise, multi stem calculations are going to blow your mind. Cheers Chris

I'm sorry but again i have to disagree with what you are saying. Taller trees are not more likely to blow over. This opinion is not supported by science. Trees reach an ultimate height maybe 1/2 - 2/3rds into their life span but stem diameters continue to increase strengthening their bases. Smaller trees are rapidly growing in height at the expense of stem diameter and thus their height to diameter ratio makes them more likely to fail than the large ones. Defects are what makes trees more likely to fail, not height. You are confusing the impact of failure with the risk of failure. Or, if the tree is dangerous, then submit an app with a tree report and avoid the criminal record. Then be a lawyer, I'm not saying you cant but you will need to do the training. You cant just spout stuff you read on the internet and dress it up as professional advice. It will destroy your reputation before you start and there is a lot of money in law. Before all this Covid stuff kicked off i was half way through my expert witness training. One of the trainers told me that the only people to win in court is the barrister and the expert witness. The money they charge is ridiculous. Think £800 per day as a starting point which goes up as you progress and build your reputation.

Good idea. If you have concerns over tree safety though, you should get it inspected. What contact? Was it refused? Are you going to appeal? Impossible to say without looking at it. Can you get up the access drive on street scene? It depends. It should have but some TOs like to stretch the rules slightly. That isn't to say it doesn't meet the amenity test. The PINS inspector will definitely look at it objectively. But it is still their opinion so difficult to judge for certain. I have seen mature Beech trees taken out in front gardens on appeal based on dominance. But then i have seen similar in rear gardens with less visibility retained. If the tree has no visibility from the street then you may have a chance. But, the PINS inspector may consider that the view from 10 houses is sufficient as they are occupied by members of the public. It is impossible to say from the info supplied.

I have never seen a Liriodendron drop leaves in the summer due to drought. They are talking about the kind of drought conditions that they experience in some part of the USA. Conditions are so dry in some parts of the US that they don't have shrinkable clay soils, they have expansive clay soils as the soils are persistently desiccated. Summer branch drop is also highly associated with drought so they are potentially making reference to that. I don't know as I don't know where the research is from. Its also pretty old. If you put that in as evidence (or any of your other points) for a TPO application it would be refused, and you would lose on appeal. If you think i am wrong then you could get yourself some PI insurance and do the OPs report on a no win, no fee basis. I mean, you would have to lie about your lack qualifications in the report, and when getting the insurance, and when sitting in the PINS hearing, otherwise it wouldn't be accepted as professional advice.

Been really busy mate. Consultancy work has been flat out this last year. All good here mate, hope you are well and look forward to the story. cheers Chris

Trees don't have tap roots. In most cases they will stretch further than the branches but will also be restricted by site conditions such as building foundations and engineered highways. It isn't rocket science but there is a lot more to it than you are making out. Your comments are extremely misleading and not helpful to the OP. Although i am guessing that he is now discounting most of what you have said. I don't mean to be rude but your comments are frankly ridiculous. I have been doing this for over 30 years, have numerous qualifications up to degree level, and do 30 hours CPD a year to maintain my professional memberships, and yet you are dismissing my professional opinion (and that of others) based on a documentary you watched! Really? Not likely, i have explained why already. Not if you have a planning condition that states that you cant. Not if you have a set of plans showing existing and proposed levels that has been conditioned. Not if you have a condition saying that foundations shall be installed under arboricultural supervision. I'm not convinced you know what a pile is or how it is installed. Pile and beam is a specialist method that can be used to install foundations while minimizing damage to roots. Not by a standard spec though. No, but they are interested in breach of condition or stop notices that can be issued by the LPA if they don't play ball. They also tend to be interested in unlimited fines and criminal records that come with TPO contravention. Agreed - but not if they have to pay out all their profits in fines. All i want to do is write tree reports and get paid, doesn't mean i am going to break the law to o it. There is absolutely no way you can assess the risk from that tree by looking at a photo. Again, you are just worrying and already worried tree owner. The risk from trees is extremely small but you are buying into all the nonsense that you have read on the internet. Statistically over the years falling trees kill between 5 and 6 people annually, compared to almost 2,000 in road traffic accidents. But we don't consider driving to be dangerous. Of course the risk can increase if the tree is defective (as it can if cars are defective) but the only way to find that out is to inspect it in person on site (or MOT the car).

LPAs are meant to assess the amenity value of the trees before confirming the TPO. There are two legal tests they should meet: The amenity test. Basically that the tree has good amenity value. I.e. That it looks nice, and in most cases is visible from a public area. If you cant see it from a public area then it doesn't have visual amenity, or at least it is diminished. There is a comment in the guidance that says you can TPO trees with low visibility in special circumstances. The expediency test. That the tree is under threat. In this case it is as you want to fell it. Most LPAs use a system called TEMPO for their amenity assessments these days as it is easy and its a quantified system. Some write a report to support the TPO explaining why it was made. these then go out with the TPO and Reg 5 notice. When working as a TO i always did both as it provides a quantitative assessment which you can then base a qualitative report on so you cover all the bases. If you were looking to get the tree removed you would include this as part of the case to show you have thought about the situation in detail. It may of course come back saying that the amenity value is high but based on your comments re visibility it may not. The TO will almost certainly refuse the app so you would need to go to appeal most likely. Its impossible to say what the chances are without seeing it.