matelot

The real reason people want to close the debate down is because they feel guilty. Many people have spent the last decades defending mass migration from some of the most violent cultures on earth. They attacked anyone that was against the migration as "racist". The Manchester attack has been a wake up call for them. They now realise that their previous beliefs have been wrong. They now realise that they are partly responsible for the deaths of children in Manchester. Instead of admitting they were wrong they'd rather stick their fingers in their ears and close the debate down.

The thing is I'm not saying anything that many many people aren't also saying in the privacy of their houses or to close friends.... Many people will be reading this thread and thinking "this matelot guy makes some interesting points, I broadly agree with his arguments". Then they read that people want to close the debate down... We all know that people generally want to close debates because they are losing the argument.

That's really not something you should be proud of....

Yeah, that's right Rich. It's obviously the tories that are behind these attacks. lol, I put "deluded" into my sat nav and half an hour later I was on your driveway!

His family were hardcore Islamists. His father was an asylum seeker from Libya because he was a hardcore Islamist. His Iman (the one that led the minutes silence) fought Gasaffis forces in Libya. Was it them that informed the authorities?

if you look at "the lounge" the threads are rarely posted on. Apart from this thread the most recent post was three days ago... To continue the pub analogy, if it wasn't for this thread "the lounge" would have been boarded up years ago.

So to sum up the main news from last week: Terrorist attacker kills 22 at concert attended by many children. 8 people have been arrested so far. Is this not a reasonable topic for discussion in a thread called "making the news today"? Are the motives of the attacker not a reasonable topic for debate? I get this is a website dedicated to trees. However we've also got familys and we do things like go to concerts in our spare time. I've a question for the people that want to ban discussions: Would you allow discussion on politics/ religion/ terrorism if it was an arbtalk user iinjured in a terrorist attack?

Tbh, I just can't see muslims and non muslims living in peace long term. This week 20 people were killed in a bomb attack aimed at children. There has been virtually no condemnation of this from the muslim community. It just can't go on.

The standard of intellectual debate has been very high over the last couple of pages. Do you think your contribution is up to the standard of current posting? The history of immigration has been like this over the last 50 years: Political parties saw fit to open the doors to third world migrants. The electorates of Europe were never asked what they thought about this and never had a chance to vote on it. The native europeans have generally been welcoming towards the migrants and been reasonably tolerant. The third world migrants have caused major problems. For instance they've committed acts of terrorism, sexually harassed european children on an industrial scale, been a massive drain to the taxpayer & caused crime etc. After each terrorist attack europeans are told we've just got to tolerate it and that "love is stronger than hate". My predictions for the future of Europe are: The goodwill of native europeans towards migrant communities will vanish. After so many terrorist attacks native europeans will start attacking muslims. This will lead to "tit for tat" attacks that will lead to civil war. The european militaries will then start killing muslims on an industrial scale. Muslims and minority groups will flee Europe towards their ancestral homelands. Similar things have happened before. For instance the europeans were kicked out of Algeria durin the Algerian war. The Asians were kicked out of Uganda. The colonial powers were kicked out the colonies.

Going to a contribution based benefits system would help as well.

I've spent years in the Middle East... It's an eye opener how poor Arabs are with technology... Personally I think we've got to stop islamic immigartion and deport all the muslims that we legally can. I think one of the problems is that we keep on getting "hill billy" muslims from Pakistan that keeps on reinforcing backward beliefs... Lock up the extremists and keep the hill Billy's out and hopefully British muslims will integrate.

The Bible was written by man. Christains were happy issuing new revisions every now and again. The Koran was written by God. Any deviation to the Koran is heresy and will lead to the writer being killed. The Koran is clear that women and gays etc are second class citizens. The Koran and women's right etc don't mix.

I agree with that. Ahmedi Muslims have developed a version of Islam that's quite "friendly" with the West. When you see muslims at candle light vigils it will generally be ahmedis. Mainstream muslims hate them and consider them heretics. The glasgow shopkeeper was killed because he was an ahmedi. The Muslim Council of Britain has issued a decree that ahmedis are not Muslims. For me, the only answer is widespread deportations and inprisoning extremists.

I remember I had a date with this 20 year old Polish girl. She was stunning, she had a size 8 body but enormous boobs. She asked me "what do you do for hobbys?". I said "I go shooting on my dad's land, I love shooting squirrels". She then said "I'm a vegetarian"... I never saw her again. Sometimes the core beliefs of people do not match. PS after Manchester do you really think it's surprising that people hate Islam? Killing kids does cause a strong reaction.

The Koran says that the lowliest Muslim is higher than the king of the richest non Muslim Kingdom. "We" have absolutedly no hope of reforming Islam. Reformation has to come from within Islam. It took centuries to reform Christianity. We're not going to reform Islam in a few years. The best we can do is stick to our part of the world and muslims stick to their part.

Yeah, nice argument Richard. That's really made me sit back and reconsider my arguments and thought process. I think the place you have in this discussion is to emphasise to people how poor the arguments on your side of the discussion are....

IS aren't the real enemy. It's people like you that are the real enemy.

I think the problem westerners have is that we think everyone thinks like us. We think "we'll let those poor refugees into Europe and they'll be so grateful that they settle in and integrate". However they actually think "Thanks to Allah we have been let into Europe. He wishes us to spread the Islamic caliphate into the crusader lands". This isn't going to end well. This is going to lead to a civil war.

My way of dealing with problems might be a little bit more effective than candlelight vigils after terrorist attacks. Do you think IS look at the bunches of flowers after a terrorist attack and think "wow! Those infidels really put on an impressive flower display! Best cancel the next terrorist attack"?

I'd argue that development happens after a society becomes less religious.... Having members of a society praying etc means less time for more productive pursuits... Muslims read the Koran and are told that they are God's chosen people. When they look at the world they see that Muslim nations are poor, so many of them believe that the West is in league with Satan. If you think they want to become developed like the West you are mistaken. For them Muhammed was the perfect man and had the perfect lifestyle. That's why the Taliban etc banned radios and other western technology. Muslims believe that the Koran is the literal word of God. It's quite clear in the Koran that it's the duty of Muslims to attack non believers. The Koran also has passages that makes it clear anyone that tries to change the Koran should be resisted. Quite frankly any Muslim that tries to make the Koran less violent will be killed. Tbh, I don't see any easy way forward....

The Russians are rumoured to have an interesting approach to justice as well. Seemingly the Russians like kidnapping the sons of terrorists, killing them, cutting their testicles off, placing them in the mouth of the son's body and returning the body to the father.

One of the problems that the criminal justice system has is that a lot of evidence about extremists comes from insider sources. If a "mole" is exposed during a trial he's obviously no longer able to provide information regarding extremists plans. The Israeli justice system overcomes this problem by not bothering with a jury. A military officer is the judge and jury for any terrorist. Sooner or later we will go down this road...

I've read Parliamentary Acts before... they don't sound like that.... That sounds like something you've written yourself..

is there something you can spray on trees to make them taste rubbish to herbivores?

is there any gorse or branch material you could put round your trees? in the past I've used gorse as a fence to protect trees from deer. maybe the goats would prefer to eat the weeds compared to the trees? maybe put the goats in and see what they eat? pull them out if they start on the trees.