matelot

Ok, thanks for another very long post. The problems facing the NHS appear to be primarily financial. There's simply not enough money to treat everyone that wants to get treated. Migrants coming to Britain earning less than circa £35k are a drain to the taxpayer. Having millions of extra people that don't pay their way is a burden for the NHS (and other public services)... Or maybe you've found some magic money trees? I don't have a problem with allowing skilled workers into the NHS... However we should all realise that by allowing migrant nurses in etc we are then putting pressure on other public services like schools and housing. Far better to train our own nurses first. Anyway, are you really cool robbing medical staff from the third world? Maybe you don't really care if Indians die because the NHS has robbed all India's nurses?

OK, so to sum up your very long post (which I doubt many people will read) immigration is good due to "genetic diversity" and because we've always had immigration. We've accepted a lot of migrants from cultures that have largely failed. Why is accepting migrants from a failed culture good for Brits? You can see parts of Britain are starting to replicate the failed cultures the migrants came from. Do you honestly think the migrants arriving in Britain over the last 50 years have made the UK a better place to live? Here is a pic of the flower display after the Machester bombing. Do you think the deaths of 22, hundreds injured, and tens of thousands of traumatised children is a price worth paying for "genetic diversity"? If we wanted "genetic diversity" could we not have got some hot Russian woman instead of people that hate us? Dont get me wrong, I think some migrants are good, however it's fairly clear the previous/ present migration system isn't working.

You're either fascinated by what I write or you have some infatuation with me...

At last we can all agree that migration puts pressure on public services.... The government does a lot to reduce pressure on the NHS by banning smoking in pubs and making seat belts compulsory etc.... Reducing migration is a way the pressure on the NHS could be reduced... The choice we have is that keep public services or continue to allow in migrants that are a burden to us. There's just not enough money to provide healthcare for every person that wants to come to Britain.

As I've said before, migration does put pressure on public services like the NHS and housing... Every single person here will know that.... You're two arguments are: 1. You shouldn't be posting here. 2. Some bizarre argument that migration is OK because we're all descended from migrants. The crazy thing is, the "lounge" part of Arbtalk has been slowly dying for weeks because no one was posting on it. I start a thread and gets lots of responses and then you start moaning that I shouldnt be here and add nothing to Arbtalk. A rational observer would probably think I've added more to arbtalk than you have....

Are you a Labour politician or something? It's been clear the political class have been ignoring the concerns of the electorate for a long time concerning immigration. The choice that policticians have to make is that they either start listening or they watch as the extreme right wing get into power. Was Trump becoming President not enough of a wake up call for them? But yeah, you put me on ignore. Far better to ignore my arguments than try and debate and get publicly "owned".

Bolt, Lol, well trolled sir! For a while I thought you were being serious. I now realise you've been trolling me with your substandard arguments and faux anger.

The ident is in the opening post.... And you accuse me of not reading posts....

You've previously told me why migration is so good? Why don't you do everyone the courtesy of presenting your arguments again? I certainly can't be bothered to scroll back and read what you've previously written. I should thank you for continually posting on a subject you find so dull.

If we tightened up our borders we would have less terrorism. The Manchester bomber was only here because previous politicans let his hardcore Islamist parents into the UK. I think many people would consider you very naive...

Like I said, you're fascinated in what I write. For a topic that you repeatedly tell me no one is interested in this thread seems to be getting lots of posts Ok, if you want a proper debate I'll start it. Here are three reasons why I think the present migration system isn't working for Brits. 1. A great bulk of migrants do low paid jobs and they are a financial drain to the taxpayer ie Big Issue sellers. 2. Migration puts a strain on public services like the NHS and housing. 3. Many migrants are not a close cultural fit in Britain ie they consider woman second class citizens. I think everyone here would broadly agree with these three reasons for not liking the present migration system. Over to you Bolt. You now give us three reasons why migration is so good...

So why do you continually respond to me if you're not interested in what I post? My hobby is forestry. If you look at enough of my posts you'll see that I have commented a fair amount on forestry... However I'm also concerned (like many others) about the way Europe is heading... There's plenty threads on Arbtalk that I'm not interested in, however I don't keep posting on them complaining that they're not interesting... It's as If you're secretly fascinated by what I post. If you're not interested in what I post you won't respond to this post However we all know you will I believe what you're really doing is trying to shut down the debate because you know my arguments are superior to anything you can offer....

So, I never accused you of calling me a "troll"... I only said I was being called a troll when responding to you.... Apart from you I don't think anyone is really interested in this very boring debate about who called who a troll. I can only assume it was the beer making you write last night... Obviously we disagree about immigration. Maybe to get the debate a bit more interesting. You could explain why you think immigration is good for native Brits/ Europeans? The BBC/ Channel 4 obviously think immigration is good, however they seem exceptionally poor at explaining why. I think immigration is bad as it reduces living standards for Brits ie it lowers wages means more congestion and puts pressure on council housing etc. Is there some positive to immigration that compensates for these disadvantages? Just remember, the trajectory of European politics is towards the extreme right wing. Unless you want hardcore right wingers getting into power your side of the argument really have to start presenting some decent arguments.... So no more boring posts

Invaders like the Romans/ Vikings/ French slaughtered Brits... Are you really trying to convince people that modern day immigration is OK because previous "invaders" slaughtered Brits?

Bolt, perhaps you could quote my post where I accused you of calling me a "troll"? Multiple terrorist attacks in Europe by people from a migrant background and you're getting worked up by getting accused of calling someone a "troll"....

I'm terrible sorry that the debate isn't up to your standard. To try and get the debate back up to your high standards perhaps you could explain what the average Brit gets from mass immigration? I'll be honest, from where I'm sitting the negatives vastly outweigh the positives. Do you think I like paying tax to support migrants? Do you think I like migrants competing for my job? Do you think I like migrants competing for public services? Is there some massive advantage to mass immigration that no one seems to be able to explain? Imho, immigration is mostly about big business wanting more labour so they can reduce wages....

I thought it was just the one question you wanted answered. I can't really be bothered going through the last few pages and answering your badly phrased questions. Sorry.

What question do you want answered then? I do struggle to take you seriously...

Well they quite obviously are. Why else do so many people risk their life to get into Britain/ Europe? Our entire asylum system is built on the idea that our values are better than other countries....

5 years ago Europe just never had mass sexual assaults like Cologne. The amount of sexual abuse in places like Rotheram is also "new". 5 years ago Europe wasn't experiencing the amount of terrorist attacks that we are now. So it seems fair to say society is going "downhill fast"..... I'd say the media spin has been to ignore these events. It's public knowledge that media ignored Cologne and Rotherham. I Think most people would agree that the media downplay islamic terrorism.....

Why is "diversity" such a good thing? The truth is many cultures/ countries have failed. Why does the UK need migrants from failed states like Afgahnistan and Somalia? What lessons does the average afghan have to share with us?

These low paid migrants will also get handouts, it's one of the main things that annoys me. Why do you think they are "vulnerable and desperate"? I think we all agree migrants come to Europe to improve their life's. However do they improve the life's of Brits? When you think about it the main duty of any politician is to look after the interests of their electorate. How is importing migrants that compete for jobs and council housing etc good for the average Brit?

tbh, I think calling me a "troll" would be a better argument than that.... Over the last centuries it's been British people that worked/ fought/ died to make Britain a nice place to live. It hardly seems fair that incomers get to come here and enjoy the things that they had no part in making.... It's like building a lovely new house with your own money then the neighbours from the squat next door inviting themselves to stay. Maybe you should think of some better arguments...

Tower Hamlets hardly looks "British" anymore... You could argue it has been taken over....