GardenKit

Ok, so lets try to clear this up. There is some truth in the stories that fuel hoses can cause problems when pump petrol ceases to be used. This does not happen all the time or on all the saws. This problem is not caused by the Aspen, but by the preceding pump petrol and the fuel pipes were certain to cause problems anyway, after all, we all know that fuel hoses fail even on saws always used on petrol. Simply put, the solvents in pump petrol soak deep into the rubber and leach out the additives built into the rubber which are designed to keep it supple and crack free. But the solvents also soften the rubber and keep it supple, whilst slowly dissolving it. Failure is inevitable at some point when using pump petrol. Different qualities of rubber degrade at different rates, for instance the green Stihl hoses last much longer than the old black ones. Remove the petrol and the rubber dries out and starts to shrink and crack. The severity depends on how long the hoses have been exposed to petrol. Put petrol back in and they leak. The same occurs if we add a fuel such as Aspen which contains no solvents. The pipes can sometimes shrink, crack and leak. But yet again the severity depends on the previous petrol exposure and quality of hoses. So, as has been said, there may be no issues at all. There may be very slight leakage or even severe failure. Replacement of hoses will ensure there is no problem and new hoses will never degrade when used with Aspen.

I understand where you are coming from Mick, but many of those claims are not so far fetched. I work on petrol engined machines every day and see problems caused by pump fuel on a very regular basis. In the wrong hands petrol is evil stuff. In the right hands however, with good management, its not too bad. Still hate it though. Love aspen.

Two feet in every welly?

The problem is that many grinders are actually badly designed. When the grinder is working the last of the stump, well below ground level, the twin cylinder engine is operating outside of it design inclination. The front cylinder can be virtually horizontal at times and can 'pump' lubricating oil. this forces it past the oil control ring and causes oil consumption, carbon build up and rapid plug degradation. Simply bad design with no thought for the engine.

I appreciate your sentiments Mick and, yes, I agree, it is expensive. But as Axel has said, many people are now using it and not finding the price to be a problem. These are not just 'rich domestic users', I am supplying several 'Pro' users throughout the country with pallets. One well known, and well respected, local tree surgery company started using Aspen 2 in the Spring of this year and has already purchased their second pallet. So yes, it is expensive. But is it too expensive?.....Maybe for some. but not for others.

There is not really any excuse for a dealer to run out of Aspen. Its merely a question of good stock control and reordering in time. New stocks always arrive from Anglo American Oil within 3 working days, and often actually arrive within 24 hours. However, a few weeks ago we did actually sell our last can as the new delivery arrived in the yard. Phew!!

I have always used Meetens 01772 691604 and found them very good. Also believe Sleeman and Hawken to be competitive. 01626 778266

"One reason I use Aspen":biggrin:

This can be true just as Steve says, but not all electrics are bad. For instance the new Stiga SC80 AE 80Volt rechargeable saw with a 16" bar has levels of 4.18 front and 3.47 rear. This is comparable with say, an Ms231 which has 3.9 front and rear.

But to be fair, everyone has their bad days Steve. I hope that was really an 066 and not a 362.

To be fair, even though dealers can misdiagnose, so can others. I often get machines brought in complete with a diagnosis which in most cases is wrong. It usually goes something like this " I have had someone, who is an aircraft engineer and knows about these things look at it and he says its the timing ( coil, carb or whatever)." They are usually wrong. The thing is, if the person who looked at and gave his diagnosis is so flipping clever why is he not repairing it? Why has it come to me to fix? I always ignore the experts diagnosis and start afresh, or I can waste time chasing the wrong fault.

Certainly not making anymore, which is a shame. A brilliant engine but sadly falls way short of the current emission regs, so production stopped. The 230 was replaced by the 240, but the 240 was nowhere near as good. The TBC240 is now being replaced by the TBC2390 which we hope will be as bullet proof as the old TBC230.

Hell, where did you get a new 230 from? They have been out of production for several years! Hang on to it though, the 230 was an incredible little machine. I sold my last 230 over a year ago. But as I said, a new 230 will reach 150psi, so this indicates your gauge is under reading by 20% So your old machine could actually be producing around 125psi, but this is about the lower limit for satisfactory running,

A brand new 230 engine will produce 150psi If a used engine 230 engine produced only 120psi using the same gauge then it would be right on the verge of failure and producing very little power. I have seen them running this low, but not well. How old/worn is your replacement?

That's the problem confirmed then. New piston and pot needed, or a skip?

If the test was done properly then yes, it's knackered. Matches the symptoms anyway.

An engine with a blocked exhaust would give totally different problems, it would start OK and tick over well but would be unable to rev out. If this machine will rev out OK and can operate in the high to mid rev range but only dies on speed approaching tickover then it is possibly that it is just set too rich on idle. So adjustment of that hidden screw may be required. Assuming of course that the compression is OK, otherwise you will be trying to tune out to compensate for wear. This simply does not work. Have you tested that compression yet?

You should be seeing 140 to 150 psi if the engine is really good, but more likely to see around130 on a working, but worn, engine.

Further to what Spud said. These carbs are not prone to over fuelling. All fuel has to pass through the main jet and is not forced through in any way. The fuel flow is controlled by two methods, working together. Its the airflow through the carb from the piston on the induction stroke that creates low pressure adjacent to the needle and tube. The lower the pressure (higher flow), the more fuel is drawn to mix with the air. The airflow is regulated by the rotary valve which also rises on a ramp as it rotates, lifting the needle and allowing more fuel out at mid and high throttle. So the only logical causes of over fuelling would be an incorrect, or missing, main jet, or possibly (and most likely) a damaged rotary valve which has stuck at the top of the ramp allowing too much fuel at low throttle. These rotary valves are cheaply and easily replaced. The main jet cannot really be faulty unless the O ring has failed, or the jet has been lost whilst servicing.

These little 22cc engines were about the most reliable engine I have ever encountered. They just keep going and going. I have sold thousands over the years and service hundreds each year, yet have only once had to replace a crank seal and have never changed a bearing. So this makes me ask what caused the seals and bearings to fail in the first place and wonder if that cause is also responsible for other. as yet unfound problems. I have had engines that are simply worn out and have low compression which then causes exactly the symptoms you have, so its worth testing the compression. They will work down to 110 psi after a fashion, but are really a bit too far gone at this figure. Similar symptoms will also be found as Spud says, from a poor carb, but as there is no slow speed circuit on the barrel carb its less likely. A poor mixture however will cause the engine to stall at tick over.

As Axel says, there is no reason why these particular models wont run on Aspen when any pre-existing faults are cured.

I guess it depends on who you talk to then, but as Aspen is superior in every way to pump fuel there can be no problem with the fuel. They are probably being cautious of the oil quality as their 4 mix engines are a bit finicky. By that account they should also invalidate machines run on their other oils. If you ran Aspen 4T with HP super then they should be happy. (But the valves will still drop, as its a machine fault rather than the fuel. Its just that they last a little longer on HP Super)

Was this a dealer, or Stihl UK? They told me point blank that they would, as there was absolutely no reason not to.

I am neither a Stihl or Huskie dealer, but have had customers telling me that their dealers had threatened the old 'it won't be covered if you use Aspen' thing. So I have spoken to service managers in both Stihl UK and Huskie UK who are adamant that no harm can come from using Aspen and they are more than happy to stand by their warranties if Aspen is used. In fact, I had a Huskie piston and pot paid for under warranty even though outside of the warranty period. Huskie passed the warranty purely because the saw had always been run on Aspen so they knew that fuel was not at fault.