Treecreeper1961

I am just putting my opinion forward, I am not in anyway an expert on anything really. The issue with soil with a high percentage of clay particles is that the addition or removal of water can make the soil volume expand or shrink accordingly. This is where the potential for structural disturbance lies. The extra demand produced by a tree can make the soil shrink and then heave when water levels are raised again. Removing the tree is unlikely to create subsidence issues as far as I am aware as once the tree is dead water demand is gone and any decaying roots decay relatively slowly and the space left is gradually filled by soil. However, having said that, intense rot fungi can certainly create tunneling and collapsing in the soil as I have witnessed today. As far as I am aware the real risk comes from heave due to soil swelling.

I actually trialed it for two weeks, for Aspen, on behalf of my boss. We were running brushcutters on it. The benefits are numerous, no carcinogens and reduced fumes, more economical(apparently), longer life for machines, better performance and it smells good! I found it a really good fuel. We stopped using it when the trial supply ran out.Money, money money. I know what you mean about cutting stumps, leylandii hedge work is pretty bad too.

O.k. Before I post these photos, sorry for the picture quality, I thought my camera was average but my daughters is not great. Also, when I said I had recently found a mass of P. squarrosa it was actually a couple of months ago and they don't look so fresh now! As far as the bootlaces go, perhaps that was my imagination or I may have mistaken the black zone line for bootlaces, not sure. All in all, I was not that impressed with my recollection of it when I went back today.Sorry, Never the less, there is some pretty impressive decay of the roots and buttresses going on and perhaps two different types of decay, with a white rot lower down and what seems like a more brittle rot extending further up the stem. Maybe the harder decayed wood is early selective de-lignification? Not he best offering I am afraid but Santa may be bringing me a replacement camera.

Nick, As above. Would you consider or have a price for a load delivered to west Wales? Ben

Check out the advice and guidance on the National House Building Council web site.

Fingers, toes and all! I have a slim hope, perhaps. Cheers Don.

Well done mate, thoroughly deserved! Now you should be signing your name Matthew Moss Tech Cert Arb.

Well done Donald:thumbup:

Sorry to hear that Tim. How frustrating. I have not received my results today. Not feeling confident about my BS5837 attempt. Which module did you fail? Hard lines Tim. Ben

Congratulations! Well done indeed. Wow, I suddenly feel very nervous. Post man usually comes about 2.00pm.

The tree is Fraxinus excelsior. Requires some climbing work before felling. Adjacent trees for life line, still, can't wait.

Sounds like a sensible suggestion but it's still take, take and take. The straw was traditionally used as bedding and eventually put back into the earth as a good blend of organic matter that added structure to the soil. We can't burn it all, can we?

That is a truly iconic picture, similar to the 1900's lumberjack stood on top of a huge pole. Similar to this, does anyone know the picture I mean? Can't find it on t'interweb.

Gerrit, I have recently found a large ash with a mass of Pholiota squarrosa bodies on the north side of the base. The wood here appears to be sound for the moment. On the south side there is extensive white rot, so soft that I can push my hand in and tear out fists full of spongy pulp. There are no fruiting bodies on the south side. There is, however, remnants of bootlaces there. Considering the succession of decay organisms, would Armillaria sp. precede or succeed P. squarrosa?

Hamadryad, Apologies for the earlier misspelling! What you are saying is that the morphology of roots is or can be determined by the presence of M. giganteus?

David, Thanks for the pics. What were the indications that led to the investigation of these trees? Fruiting bodies? Arising above the roots or on the buttresses? What was the conclusion of investigations? Paul's mention of VTA prompted me to pick up The Body Language Of Trees. I had forgotten there is a mention of root decay there. Mattheck suggests that 50 to 70% of mechanically functioning roots must be sound. He also refers to Rr or the static root plate radius. This has jogged my memory a bit. Most uprooted windblown trees I have looked at have lifted a root plate with a very consistent radius. Quite often the roots also have a distinctive blackening or blueing decay pattern. For some reason I have assumed root decay generally starts at the extremes of roots and progresses towards the center of the root plate. Is this a fair assumption? How much labour is involved in the work your pictures show? How do you reinstate the root zone? Thanks, Ben

I second that question Gerrit. Although, I assume it is done as you would do when assessing stem decay, sounding(as David is demonstrating), drilling( as Hamayadrad is suggesting) or with the more sophisticated sonic and thermal imagery. The thought has just occurred to me,however, is the confirmation of decay in significant structural roots sufficient to form prognosis without delving further into extensive testing? Obviously the size and number of roots makes it a different equation to solve than when considering remaining integrity of stems that are decayed.

Some fungi species such as Meripilus giganteus and Kretzmaria deusta decay roots leading to serious implications, as we all know. Can anyone help me understand more about assessing the risks of such infections? 1. How do arbs. go about examining roots suspected of being decayed? 2. Does anyone have practical experience of this that they can share? 3. Is it realistic to excavate around roots to look for decay? 4. Is there anything such as the tR ratio that is used to assess integrity of roots with decay? Thanks in advance for any input.

Fair play, that is pretty cool. You have to choose the tree carefully I bet.

Woodworm, I read you post last night and it sounds like a plan. It occurred to me today that there is obviously a reason that you are due to plant in April, later than you would ideal plant many species. Eucalyptus are sensitive to frost and I guess this is the reason. My concern is that April has been the driest and warmest month here for a couple of years and this may require attention. How much watering do you envisage doing?

As already suggested, it is hard to see how the human race can achieve sustainability in any aspect of life. If every household in the U.K. burned wood as their main source of heating, how many trees would need to be felled to feed that level of demand. Population growth is the greatest challenge we and the planet face. Food and energy production is already providing challenges as we all know, or do we? The future may indeed be bleak if we dare to look toward it without blinkers. However, we must not abandon hope or fall into the trap of living for ourselves for today without thought of tomorrows generations. People must know and accept that our race is a plague on this planet, driven by greed and selfish desire for more and more. Only when enough realise and accept this can we hope to change. There must be a shift in consciousness if sustainability is ever to be achievable. Without that, we and our planet are truly destined for grim future. I believe trees may be able to help with our challenges that are ahead of us. The benefits they can bring are fantastic and varied. Firewood may not be the all conquering answer but it is a damn site closer to sustainability than oil, gas or coal. There has to be a strategy that combines wood as fuel, trees for carbon sequestering and woodland for biodiversity. The shift in FC policy is going that way. Unfortunately, there are many answers that will not be fully utilized until the driving force in the world is altered from the greed of the powerful few( and apathy of the many) to one of a different path. For now, I believe wood is good, coppice is great but trees are even better. One question I ask occasionally is why do organisations that should know better insist on using native oak for sign posts, gates, all manner of countryside furniture? Is there sound policy behind this or is it the deluded actions of hypocritical hooray henrys? I ask that question sincerely. Please explain to me why the Woodland Trust, National Parks, Statutory Conservation bodies and others do this. One hundred year old and even older oaks felled to the ground just so they can be milled up and stuck back into the earth to rot. I understand that industry and woodland management has traditionally been the guardians of our woodlands but surely this does not make sense, is no where near sustainable.

I have never tried either of these. I have a Tree Austria Duo in work and a Komet Dragonfly of my own. The Tree Austria is very comfortable and robust. The Komet is lighter, not as robust but comfortable and really nice to climb in. Of the two, I just about prefer the Tree Austria.

Yes I can just about manage that. My camera has been out of action for a while but my daughters phone cam to the rescue.

Thanks Tom, will give it a go.

Hi treeseer, Thanks for commenting on some of my comments. As a new member of the forum it creates a real feeling of inclusion when posts receive direct comment. I wish I was experienced and educated sufficiently to give a different opinion on management of the merip. beech with confidence. Part of me agrees with what you are saying. Knee jerk reactions to fungal infections are something education will hopefully reduce within the industry. I remember a beech tree I dismantled about twelve years ago. At the time it was the biggest and finest tree I had worked on. An independent consultant had inspected the tree for a housing association. He had identified a fungal fruiting body, I don't know which it was, and recommended the tree to be removed. At the time I didn't consider the rights or wrongs of it. A local resident expressed her sadness and anger at what we were doing. I blindly continued with my work like a good little boy. I enjoyed the job and still remember it from time to time. As we reduced the great body of the tree there was no sign of decay until we were cutting the last meter of the base, where there appeared a small column of decay, no more than three or four inches in diameter. This suggests to me that the removal may have been premature,even considering there may have been more extensive decay within the roots. I feel you may be right. The client should be presented the options for management. It would, however, be extremely difficult for someone less informed in the physiology of trees to make a judgement that they can feel confident in without some guidance, I feel. Many clients would turn around and say' your the expert, you tell me'. It is all well and good championing the conservation of trees but it is a percentage game. The target, the value, the tree trouble, the cost, the level of expertise. If it was up to my strong environmental, green conscience all trees would be allowed to live a natural life and die a natural death. Unfortunately I suffer from fear. Fear that a tree may fall over and a rush hour jam of cars may cushion it's fall. This is not an irrational fear, in my opinion and opinions are what it's all about. The Anne Frank Tree is an interesting case to consider. Several highly polished opinions that may not quite be so confident now. Perhaps if further investigation of the tree reveals limited decay, a crown reduction would be sufficient to reduce the sail area and sooth concerns, whilst maintaining the undoubted value the tree posses. (I say again, I don't know how accurately the decay to the underside of main anchoring roots can be assessed. I would be very interested if anyone can direct me to any information or test cases on the subject.) The down side of this is several fold. Further decay from the pruning wounds. Accelerated decay of the current fungi inhabiting the tree due to the associated stresses of pruning. The costs of the investigation and subsequent reduction. The commitment to a continued programme of maintenance. The more I learn the more I realize there are no easy answers, and the more courage and conviction is required to give ones opinion. My conclusion is, you are right, the tree deserves further investigation. So get yourself over here and start excavating around all those big roots with a small pick and brush, I'll come and have a look. Yours sincerely, Ben