the village idiot

Fantastic Ti These open and honest exchanges of thought are so important. People who hold my views on this are so often branded troublesome bullies or even evil. Your willingness to engage fully is really refreshing. I think we both appreciate the crucial importance of finding the correct answer on this. We both want to see humanity flourish in the best possible way. There is a lot to say in response to your post. Woodland duties call, but I'll give you my thoughts this evening.

If the very admirable ethics you list above were all that were in the texts you would have a very good moral guide to life. There is a big problem however in highlighting the good and ignoring the bad to demonstrate that something is true. The deeds that you mention are the teachings that YOU have decided are good to follow, and they are the same morals that any decent person would choose to live out. God's instructions to his flock are to obey his every word. If all of society did this the results would be catastophic. True adherents to the word of the Christian God would be doing good things sometimes and at other times be indistinguishable from Isis. They would be stoning homosexuals to death. They would be stoning their wives to death on their father in law's doorstep if their wife had slept with another man at any time before they were married. They would be stoning their children to death if they answered back They would be not beating their slaves so hard that they damage their eyes or their teeth. The reason Christians are not doing these things is because they have decided that the perfect God was wrong about these things. God is a moral monster in half his moods. Jesus is God and also states very clearly that his presense doesn't change one jot of the law dictated in the old testament. Christianity (although it will never admit it) has forsaken God in favour of human morality. Rejecting the notion of God frees humanity to focus purely on what is best for humanity without all the savagery. We are not perfect at this but we are getting better. The biggest obstacle in our way is religion. We can take some of the good advice from the Bible (there is plenty in there) but it is important to note that Christianity did not invent goodness. People were looking after each other long before Christ came along. Christianity has managed to reform itself by slowly and very reluctantly conceding to the undeniable facts revealed by science. This is fantastic but there is still a long way to go. The Christian fundamentalists are to this day blocking the rights of gay people to be happy, blocking stem cell research which can bring an end to the suffering of millions and blocking the access to birth control in the developing world causing huge amounts of needless suffering and death. All this is directly attributable to the fact that millions of people refuse to stop believing in an unbelievable book. Modern day Christians are radically less harmful than they used to be, but it is crucial to realise that clinging on to the concept of the divine God provides cover for the other religions that are doing huge amounts of damage. The USA lands bombs on fundamentalist Muslims boomin 'God bless America' on the launchpad. This is truly insane and only adds rocket fuel to the fire. There is absolutely no good reason to believe that God exists. HUMANS have decided what is good in the good book, and HUMANS have decided to disect out what is bad. Science proves the Bible wrong every single time they come into conflict. We need to acknowledge this fact, dispense with world fracturing religions and work towards the flourishing of all concious creatures based on what we discover to be true. Bending over backwards to try to justify the impossible and hold onto faith in the divine is needlessly prolonging suffering and holding humanity back. We can do all the good things that Christians undoubtedly do without fooling ourselves in the process and forcing ourselves down harmful paths.

If the organisation were helping for helping's sake I'm sure he would have no problem at all. If there was any indication that there were attempts to 'inject the truth of the gospels' I imagine he would not be happy. Religious doctrine comes with a lot of ridiculous and dangerous baggage. You don't need God to be good. Human morality comes from the human brain, shaped by society. You yourself have used your human brain to decide what to adhere to in the Bible and what to discount. You have decided what is moral, not God. I don't think we are in disagreement that some types of aid relief are counter productive. My argument is simply that there are objectively good ways to help people in need. We shouldn't stop all aid because some of it isn't helping.

Thanks. Always happy for a bit of encouragement. I only heard about her book, from you, an hour before I posted. I watched the video of her that you put up which summarises her views on the subject. I then gave my thoughts, including quotes from books that I have read. The fact that Sam Harris is an atheist is completely irrelevant. The link is an interview he did with the founder of the effective altruism movement. Have you accessed the links? Do you dare!?

Surely keeping people alive well into adulthood is key for making a lasting difference. Once people can feel secure that there will be some children alive to look after them as they age they will not have to go down the 'many kids to make sure one survives' strategy. This obviously needs to be coupled with education and unrestricted access to birth control. Regarding aid. The former Mrs Idiot's parents spent last year volunteering in Uganda. A country still reeling from the grotesque Idi Amin years. Her parents are atheist farmers. (Can you possible imagine a more potent combination of evil?) Nick spent the year teaching sustainable farming methods to a population that had not been taught even the very basics of farming practice. Joan taught beekeeping so they could start to produce their own honey. Their flights, room and board were paid for by a charity. This is aid. To suggest that this sort of assistance should be witheld from people in desperate situations through no fault of their own is truly bizzare and frankly very disturbing. There is good aid and there is bad aid. We need to sort the wheat from the chaff and continue to help people in need.

Interesting video. I haven't read her book, but there is a large amount of high profile criticism from people that have. In the video, Moya and the interviewer express their disbelief that we have donated over a trillion dollars to Africa over the past 60 years of the aid program and the continent is still not lifted out of poverty. If you break this down it becomes radically less surprising. It sounds like a lot of money but actually equates to around £28 per recipient per year. In a year we give a desperate person the amount of money most of us expect to earn in a couple of hours and we are surprised their lives are not turned around? Also, this is assuming that all the aid gets through to the intended subjects. We all know that this isn't the case. Moya also argues that not only has aid not been of benefit, it has actually been detrimental to Africa, making things worse. Lets look at a few facts. Since the inception of the aid program: Life expectancy has risen from 36.7 years to 56 years, an increase of almost 50% Annual deaths from preventable diseases have declined from 5 million in 1960 to 1.4 million in 2001 Annual malaria deaths have declined from 3.8 million to 0.7 million Annual diarrhoeal deaths have declined from 4.6 to 1.6 million Despite the amount of money donated being relatively tiny there have been extremely positive effects. Moya makes very little distinction between good aid and bad aid. She wants to see the aid tap turned off completely in 5 years time. This would result in the suffering and death of millions of children. This is unthinkable when there are other options on the table. I think it also relevant to point out that Moya is not a poverty striken mother with no access to clean water, she is an investment banker. She works for Goldman-Sachs for goodness sake! Her solution to improving the lives of Africans in the long term is to stop aid programs and forge ever greater links with China who are investing huge sums of money in Africa to remove as much natural resource as possible for the benefit of China. This is providing some Africans with jobs that they wouldn't have ordinarily, but I don't think you have to look too far into the future to see huge potential problems with this model. Moya thinks like a profit driven investment banker. I personally view this as a real and dangerous problem. People like Matelot believe that all we should be doing to help is put in place measures that reduce the number of Africans that are born. This quite clearly needs to part of the solution, but to limit our aid to solely this is not only morally disgusting but also no answer in isolation. Like pretty much everything in this world, it is a very complex problem. Matelot will be shocked to hear that it takes people cleverer than him to put forward workable strategies. We are getting much better at targetting aid in ways that really work. Aid is crucial but it needs to go on the right things. Some aid organisations are literally 1000's of times more effective than others, and some are downright disastrous. The key is knowing the difference and giving to charities that are using the money most effectively. https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/ https://samharris.org/podcasts/being-good-and-doing-good/

It's a mistake to think that the West can turn around the fortunes of a continent between 1984 and now. These things take time, many generations. The situations in many parts of the developing world are improving. International aid is a huge factor in this. Is it all directed and used in the best possible way? Undoubtedly not, but this doesn't make aid a bad thing. There are organisations springing up like the effective altruism movement. They use science and good research to inform us where best to give money to make the most possible real difference. Have a Google of Will MacAskill if you are interested.

Oh My God! Just when you think there's a chink of light you prove once and for all that you are one sick bastard. Sorry for the language mods, but that post is gross.

Hold that thought Matelot! The differences in quality of life between us and the majority of the rest of the world's population is almost entirely down to luck. I agree with you that a lot of well meaning aid is not focussed on all the initiatives it needs to be. I am no expert but I suspect a focus on education, empowerment of women, and access to birth control would help make a huge difference. Lifting people out of poverty. Some 'enlightened' organisations in the West are still teaching the world's poorest that the use of condoms is sinful.

Got a bit of a chip on your shoulder Gary?

"Who was this bloke exactly?" "Mark Bolam M'lord" "Case dismissed!"

How long a list do you want? You need to do some research into all that Oxfam actually does. Your solution to the population issues is to let people die of starvation. This is obscene. There are many ways we can help solve these problems. Reasoning needs to be cool headed, not cold hearted.

This is a horrible sentiment Matelot. I genuinely feel sorry for you and the way that your brain works. You may experience a temporary thrill from broadasting these narrow minded views, but ultimately they are going to make you unhappy. Try and extend the boarders of your compassion a little bit. You may well be pleasantly surprised at the results. Re. the prostitutes issue. I haven't yet read the details but I think it is important to always recognise that we are all human beings and subject to the misjudgements and imperfections that come with this. It would be very sad if we lose sight of the bigger picture in the light of mistakes, which are always going to happen.

Don't you mean my Jacket?

Blighty Mouse?

MASH ?

The Darling Spuds of May?

You used to have to carve your post onto stone tablets and get BigJ to lug them over to Steve. The new system is much more user friendly.

Manufacturer and approx cost would be good to know. Have you got any pictures?

Identity crisis Cornish?

Getting a felling licence is a doddle, and it doesn't in any way stop him/her cutting them themselves.

Can you tell us more? Or will they have to kill you?

They will carry on planting and carry on getting felling licences. The 5 cubic mtrs is only the limit if you don't apply for the licence.

That's OK Stubby. Now try to remember what I told you this time. The Coco pops go in your mouth, the slippers go on your feet.