agg221

Icicle

Decorations

Lacquer

Sounds like a great project - there is a piece of land I have my eye on just down from us of similar size which I would like to plant up as a coppice. Only bit I can comment on is your paddock - if it's shady sweet chestnut won't like it. Hazel will be fine though. If 70-90yrs old, birch probably is reaching the end of its life at this point whereas the oak and beech are still young. It may be worth getting someone who knows what they are looking at to walk the wood with you and identify ideal spacings, trees with a good or bad form to keep/remove etc. From your description, it sounds like someone decent is likely to think the same way as the tree officer anyway which is a good thing. Also think about what you want to do with the trees you fell. If they are to be extracted for firewood then you need a way to do this. For your own use, you could literally ring it up where it falls and move it out in a wheelbarrow to your access rides but if there is more than this you need to think about what is going to happen to it. Alec

trajectory

Amazed

Clearly haven't been applying enough Arbrex..... Alec

Assuming the quality is OK - nothing special in the grain but no major defects, I would take the following into account: 4ft is quite short. 12" is the narrower end, assuming this is because they are milled quite a long way out from the centre, through and through sawn, and therefore liable to cup. 8ft is a good length. 30" is a nice wide board for 'feature' use. I would measure up cubic feet actually achieved once the tree is milled. I would do this as length x thickness and assuming relatively parallel sided boards, x minimum width on the narrower side, heartwood only. If not parallel sided it gets a bit more tricky if they are being used double waney edged as features for example. I would take all measurements in inches and divide through by 1728 to get cubic feet. For green oak, I would regard £15/cube as the bottom end, £20/cube as a reasonable price. I wouldn't go lower than this as it wouldn't recover the costs relative to the risk taken in milling the tree (risk of potential defects) - you might win on one tree but on average you will lose when you get the 'bad one'. If they are having the lot and there is a fair mix of board sizes across that range, I would be quite happy at £15/cube pre-sold. If most of the boards are the larger size and they want the small ones on top, I might go up to around £17.50/cube. If they are going to pick through the pile and choose the ones they want it would definitely be £20/cube as you will spend more time on this and the boards you are left with will be the lower value ones. Alec

That first piece of oak is going to be just over 35 Hoppus and looks to be a nice clean stick. It's a slightly odd length but I would say at least £120 which would allow for the buyer to actually want 8'. £30 is just silly. Is that second piece ash? If so, there may be some damage running in from the dead limb to the left but if it doesn't run in too far then there are some nice boards to be had run straight across the middle of that crotch, as table top slabs. Not such a high value as it's smaller, ash is less desirable as it can't be used externally and there is a risk as to where that rot runs to but still good for £80 or so I would have thought if someone wants it. What else do you have and whereabouts in the country are you? If you are close enough for me to get it then I am currently on the lookout for some nice straight, clean sycamore at around 30", any field maple, sugar maple and any of the plum species (damson, sloe or garden/orchard grown trees etc). Alec

Depending on species, quality and quantity, sounds on the face of it like you might sell some as sawlogs? Alec

It is possible to use the smaller sections to make curved beams. They will be box-heart and hence strong, but will develop cracks through to the heart (which is fine but they will show - just expect it). He will need to find lengths without substantial knots and there is very much an art to this, which takes time to learn how to 'see' the timber in the tree and get the most out of it. He would then need to remove the bark and I would also remove the sapwood. I would still be inclined to use an Alaskan to cut two parallel sides, then cut the other two (curved) sides using a side-axe to follow a drawn on line. You want a smooth, swept curve of equal thickness along the whole length. This will then effectively be the same construction method as standard framing, rather than roundwood framing. A 10" diameter probably has a 6" x 4" in it with slightly waney corners. From the picture, I wouldn't be writing off the fatter bit either. There looks to be a reasonable length for shorter sections such as upright posts in the foreground, so again with careful mill placement it should be possible to recover some decent timber. Alec

Manufacturing bases develop over time. In the 1950s and early 1960s, Japan was renowned for producing a cheap, low quality product ('Made in Japan' was synonymous with 'Rubbish'). China can present a challenge to engage with as part of a B2B supply chain due to its cultural approaches to IP and protectionism and this does have a knock-on consequence for its rate of development in certain areas. However, the need for quality improvement is generally recognised and they (and I do mean they collectively as much of it is state-sponsored) are increasingly buying in public domain know-how, alongside their own development programmes. The capability to produce top quality products is on a very rapid growth curve and it is probably already true that capability outstrips reputation by a long way - to an extent being addressed at the moment by producing sub-components for many better known brands so that the country of origin is less visible. Apple and Omega spring to mind for starters. I anticipate that over time reputation will catch up - I would not be surprised if 10yrs from now, 'Made in China' was synonymous with solid quality and performance. Alec

Yes, but his 'international experience' is best not discussed on a family-friendly forum.... Alec

If you're sure, that is most generous of you. Pierre has the list of what I want and the trees are ready so if you are up for tackling the receptionist it would be great to get them on their way. All I need to do now is convince Pierre to raise the invoice. The trees are packed in root protecting bags so will keep for a good few weeks but heeling them in to a trench would make doubly sure if the weather should turn frosty or there is a drying wind. Alec

MM106 wouldn't be big enough - M25 would be the best UK alternative. Bittenfelder is generally reckoned to be more tolerant of poorer soils including wet soils (such as I have), making it ideal for growing in a fully grassed orchard. If I ended up unable to source Bittenfelder I would go for M25 which should be OK. You could then use a vigorous culinary variety as the stem builder but you would want to select something which was very highly canker resistant. Alec

Bittenfelder is slightly odd in that the vigour is a genetically transferrable trait and comes true from seed (the fruit doesn't but this is obviously not an issue for rootstocks). You sow the seed and then either bench graft the stem-building scion at the end of the first year when lining the stocks out or bud the following summer with grafting to fill in the failures. These are then run up to full height, typically a year but maybe two, and then grafted at the desired height the following year. Altogether it is typically a 4yr cycle from sowing the rootstock seed to final planting out - quite intensive. Alec

I would regard 3'6" as the higher end of bush, 4'6" as half-standard and 6' as a full standard. The French still plant traditional cider orchards, under-grazed by cows (I will be leaving the cow bit out!) so these are grafted at 6' or just over. Most varieties are too weak to run the stem up this far and Bittenfelder stock doesn't have great structure for the stem, hence the use of a stem builder. President Descours is the French choice but Bulmer's Norman is used for the same purpose in the UK. Bulmers does produce a small number of trees of this type for sale each year but in a really limited range which doesn't quite line up with what I want to do. There is a small patch of land adjoining us which we are buying (should complete today!) and it is an ideal site for a few full sized standards. These will provide a visual feature and the varieties I want are designed to produce vintage quality cider or blend well to add flavour to surplus cookers. The land has been a paddock in the past and still has stables on, so could be used for this again. High standards will be enable this, and will also avoid the problems we often have around here with deer. Alec

Steve - I will try to take some photos when I am next milling as Ripsaw used to supply something like this, which I bought, and the system is excellent. It's both the attachment to the log and the connection between lengths which means I can make an absolutely rigid length of 20' up out of 4x5' sections. If you aren't in a rush it is worth a look at this as it really does work well, even for the Alaskan milling wide butts. Alec

Hi Rob, I don't like Shiply very much - they take their 'booking fee' upfront but won't return it if the courier then drops out. Having lost money that way before I would rather not do so again if I can help it. Pinkfoot - thank you for the offer. I normally graft my own but these are on Bittenfelder stock, then a stem builder before being top-worked, which is, quite frankly, too much hassle for me to undertake for a few trees. Are you able to produce top-worked standards? If so, I'd be very interested to know details regardless of what happens with the French trees. Alec

Thanks all for the suggestions and offers of help - very much appreciated. I have picked up with Ty as this probably offers the easiest route for the nursery, which makes it more likely that they won't just give it up as too difficult. If that falls through I will see what else works best. NFG - thank you for your offer - I will treat it as a fall-back but at least the UK side should be a lot easier to arrange (the trees will keep a week or two and I can get to most places, so long as you aren't heading straight to the Hebrides or Cornwall!) The VAT registered business route does work but it will be a bit of a pain as it means setting up a TNT account to access the TNT express service. There is an oddity in the system in that TNT are happy to carry plants but domestic users can't access the large parcel service directly and the website brokers have plants on their prohibited list, however I will come back to people if necessary and they are still willing as it is a reasonable price for shipping. Thanks All, Alec

Thanks for that - I'll see what he can do. Cheers Alec

Good thought - any ideas on how to find one? I have been burned by Shiply before so am keen to avoid them. Any suggestions on decent web-based brokers? Cheers Alec

The only thing I have to add is that the 305mm projection is from the widest fixed point of the trailer. I may still have this in writing as I got it from the one of the people who wrote the construction and use regs. It means, for example, that if you have a plant trailer with wheel arches alongside the body, the overhang is measured from the outer edge of the wheel arch, not from the outside of the body, which gives a lot more freedom to operate. Alec

A long shot I know, but does anyone happen to be travelling from France to the UK in the near future. I am looking to bring over around six top-worked cider apple trees as they are not available in the UK. They will be bare-root and apples are not subject to any restrictions but the shipping companies are becoming more restrictive in their policies (in a 'computer says no' type sense) and it is tricky to get them here as a private individual (some couriers will only deal with a VAT registered business). The nursery is near Angers. Being top-worked trees they will be around 2.5m long, so would only really fit in a van or pick-up (or an estate if you don't have anyone else in it). Happy to cover costs. Cheers Alec

Ash was used for a good reason - there is nothing with the same toughness and stiffness which can take the repeated shocks (which grows in the UK). I am told that privet is also good, but try finding a big enough piece! Hickory is of course excellent but you would have to buy it in. It does have the advantage that it can be scorched black due to the sugars in it and then rubbed down with wire wool and wax while still hot, which gives a long-lasting black finish, as well as removing the finer whiskers from the surface. If these are short handled hatchets or carving axes, the choices are more wide-ranging and you can use pretty much anything - even short grain timbers such as beech are found. Alec