Big J

Definitely not good Beau. Erected 255ft of 6ft fencing at the yard today. Holes dug yesterday, posts in place, ready mix concrete truck into the yard first thing and away we went. As soon as all the posts were in, we started back at the other end with the rails. By the time we were done with the rails, started at the other end with the boards and finished at 1630. A solid days work!

Not likely to be very stable as crown cut. It will be inclined to cup fairly seriously. If it were the only length there, then perhaps you'd take a few slices off it, but given that there is a reasonable second length (I'd probably mill it), that's what I'd put the time into and I'd firewood the main butt. Remember, it's just as much work (and usually more) to convert a crap log into boards for only a fraction of the return. Stick to the best logs and you'll have far fewer issues in the log term.

Just not worth it Mark. With the volume of sound wood above, you're better focusing on that and firewooding the rest. Of all the viable hardwood timbers, beech has the lowest value.

All my sawdust (from the sawmill, not processor) goes to horsey types. It's finer, but as it's not bone dry, seems not present any issues for the beasts. I give mine away (usually a total of about 1-2 bags a week).

It's like they made one to his spec!

se7enthdevil tends to get timber at a very low price, so you can get a bit more than that for it. I find that in my area, I'm quite cheap (possibly why Steve sometimes buys timber from me!). If you don't have a kiln, it will limit your market. Kilns are simple to build - I've posted a thread here on Arbtalk about how to build one. Regarding prices per cube, this is what I tend to charge on average. First price is green, the second kiln dried. Air dried would be somewhere in the middle. Oak: £18/38 Beech: £10/22 Sycamore: £12/28 Elm: £15/35 Ash: £12/26 Douglas fir: £8/14 Larch: £7/14 Spruce: £7/13 I'm VAT registered, so all those prices would be plus VAT. Jonathan

I draw the parallel with engineers in order to try to instill a sense of perspective with regards to the pay package. My brother is a civil engineer, 5 years experienced now, obviously did a Ba degree to get started, is now incorporated, has started his masters and is on the road to becoming chartered, at which point he might start to get close to earning £45k. What I'm saying is that whilst yes, good climbers are worth good money, they aren't worth £45k on PAYE. If it's your own business and you assume the risk, the debt, the responsibility for finding work then you have the justification to earn as much as you can. If you are just an employee, then no, definitely not.

I'd be inclined to ring up the first length with the rot and mill the second length with the branches. Better to have solid boards with the odd branch than half rotten boards with straight grain.

£45000 a year PAYE is lunacy for a job that takes about a month to qualify for. That's relatively senior civil engineer money. A sense of perspective is required I think chaps. I think if Beechwood is offering up to £30k a year plus benefits, he should have no problems filling the vacancy. PAYE is a very different kettle of fish to self employed.

No one is certain what causes it. Elm from sandy soil is supposed to have major problems, but I had 50 tonnes last month from a sandy site and it was fine

Guide for buying logs: Things to look out for with all species: When buying logs (or indeed deciding what goes into the firewood pile or what you are going to mill, if you don't buy your logs) there are criteria that apply to all species. These are some (though it's not an exhaustive list!): * Ring shake: This is where you find cracks that run along the growth rings of the tree. This is the most serious form of shake, and seriously ring shaken trees are not worth milling due to fractured boards. This is what ring shake looks like: I've found it to be most prevalent in Sweet Chestnut - I've looked at many SC logs and only milled one. * Star shake: Not as serious as ring shake, but severely shaken trees can still be a lost cause. Seems to be worst (in my experience) in oak up here. I wouldn't automatically disregard a star shaken log, but I'd look carefully at both ends. If you can't easily see the top end of a log, look at any larger branch stubs as the shake will still be visible through the branch stubs if it is present. * Twist: Very few trees grow completely straight. It's the degree of twist that causes the issue. The best way to judge twist is to follow the pattern of the bark. Severely twisted trees tend to come from sites that are exposed or subject to other stresses. As such (for this moment ignoring the fact that the twist will result in boards that will twist the moment they are cut), trees like this should be avoided. * Off centre heart: If you haven't seen the tree standing, you can still get a very good idea of how it grew by the position of the heart. In an ideal world, you would only mill logs with a dead centre heart, as these trees will yield boards that are most stable. A severely miscentred heart will mean huge tension in the log and result in boards that move a huge amount both on the mill and in drying. This is accentuated with softwoods - you won't believe the movement in milling larch with off centre hearts. * Rot: Don't automatically disregard logs with rot. It might not extend as far as you think, and in some species (like elm) it's thought that rot can cause more colourful figure further up the tree. That said, on commonly available, lower value timber, firewood a half rotted log as it's not worth the effort. * Metal: Metal is sometimes obvious, usually not. Look for usual lines across the butt (this often means fence wire), look at the position the tree grew in and look at the butt for discolouration (blue stain from metal is only really apparent in oak, but other species can give metal away sometimes). Accept that garden trees nearly always have metal in them, pray it's not too severe and don't bother with a metal detector as they really aren't that good. * Branching: The number of acceptable branches on a log depends on your customers. If you are selling quartersawn oak, the number of acceptable branches is zero, or as close as is damn it. Garden furniture is the other end of the scale. Sometimes branching results in stunning figure - the difficulty comes later in getting it to dry flat and machining it. Very branchy logs at my yard usually end up as mantle pieces. * Amount of time felled: For some species, a tree that has been down for a couple of years is better (oak for instance). For others (sycamore and pine mainly), it can be disastrous. Sycamore is very prone to grey staining and will grey within a couple of months of being felled, even if felled in winter. Pine goes blue. Get the right tree at the right time of year, and make sure you don't sit on it for too long if you can. Spruce is another one - dries fairly quickly in the round and becomes very hard to cut flat once part dried. That's about all that springs to mind at the moment - do add to it!

I think one of the things that is going to cause headaches is possible discrimination cases in our industry. I'll set the scene: You advertise for a job, interviewee comes along (looks OK on paper) and they are massive. The might have some tickets and on paper experience, but we all know that really means nothing. Who is going to employ someone who is by the nature of their obesity is going to struggle with the physical tasks of day to day work? You can't easily say "Lose 5 stone and come back to me" though can you? On principle, I wouldn't employ anyone with a serious weight problem. They are not going to be able to keep up carrying all that extra weight, and frankly I don't have time to hear their excuses about slow metabolisms and big bones. Anyone with an actual disability causing their weight problem should know better than to seek employment in areas of work where it's going to be a major issue. We all have our limitations. My back and leg injury are such that I cannot stand still for long periods without a lot of pain. Consequently, I'm not going to sue a nightclub for not providing me with a chair for manning their doors....

Depends. If I'm cutting by myself, I tend to cut a whole stack and then wiggle them onto the forks to avoid the lifting. If I've got a lackey in, I usually remove after each cut so that it's scraped, treated and ready to be stacked after each cut. With heavy boards, I cut a few and then wiggle onto forks and off. I was cutting waney edge larch fencing yesterday (180 square metre at 18mm) from logs at about 14" in diameter. I would cut to one board shy of the heart, lift the stack off, flip the log and cut to the bed.

Good point about the safety around the bandwheel housings. I've had at least one band explode dramatically on me, with a 4" long section of band ending up rattling around the housings. That said, the doors are at least 4mm thick on mine, so they seem to be effectively bullet proof! Building a shelter over the mill is vital, and it's always a trade off between access and weather proofing. On bandmills, use diesel on all your chains at least once a week to keep them lubricated. Ideally every other if you are busy. Shavey - I find I very very occasionally get stuck if I have a large weight above the band (I can cut a depth of about 18", so could conceivably have 9 2" boards on top of the cut I'm making) and the tension is such in the log that all the weight is on the end (the exit) of the cut. This has happened about 3 or 4 times, the band gets stuck and I have wedge to finish the cut.

We're a cooperative bunch (of sawmills) up here. Whilst obviously everyone looks after their own business, I believe that sharing things that have made your job easier is well worth doing. Like with anything else, you can regard yourself as being quite proficient (or indeed expert!) and still not know the half of it. I'm pretty sure that's me, and I look forward to other contributions! When I've got a moment over the Christmas period, I'll do post on what to look out for when buying and sawing logs, what sells and what doesn't and guide prices for butts.

I thought it would be useful to start a thread sharing our personal experiences in sawmilling and the things we have learned along the way. There are all manner of little things that we all probably do, without realising that many of them are quite novel, and others might be uniquely ingenious. Anyway, I shall get the ball rolling with a list of vital kit: Forklift: This is the single most important piece of kit in any yard. Before you invest in a bandsawmill, buy a forklift. A second hand 4x4 masted forklift will set you back about half what a second hand Lumbermate or similar will cost. For me, everything stops the moment the forklift breaks down - I'm unable to do anything. If the bandsawmill were to break down, I'd load a kiln, do some firewood, tidy the yard, chainsawmill something - you get the picture. Pressure washer: Every log that goes on the bandmill gets washed, regardless of how clean it looks. Debarkers on higher end hydraulic mills are usually rubbish - when I had one on my Woodmizer it was sometimes unreliable at actually working (though more reliable than anyone else's I know of) and wouldn't reach the mud on some deep fissured bark logs (like E. Larch). I have mine mounted to a pallet with an IBC tank. It means it's fully mobile, I can take it to any log in the yard (though I now always wash them in the same place, on a concrete pad as it's easier to clean) and get the logs clean. 5 minutes spent cleaning a log will save you twice as long on band changes/slow cutting, will save you hundreds each year in sharpening costs and means much more accurate cuts. My bands typically just blunten though heavy use - there is no waving around and I think that is because the logs are spotless when they go on the mill. Floor scraper: I use this for cleaning the boards of sawdust, and as far as I know I was the only person in ASHS (Association of Scottish Hardwood Sawmills) using one. Scrapes sawdust off in one pass - better and quicker than a brush and less than £20 from a builder's supply. This is what I mean: Cant hook: Not a large felling lever but a cant hook intended for sawmilling. About £50-90 depending on what you buy but invaluable, even with a hydraulic mill. I was cutting double waney edge larch cladding today and the hydraulics on the mill always struggle to turn half a log (I cut down to one board shy on the heart and then flip). It was the same on the Woodmizer. You can fanny around for a minute or two and flip it with the hydraulics or take 15 seconds and do it with the cant hook. Wykabor: Borate based anti fungal and anti insect treatment. Makes a very large difference to the amount of mould that will grow on your timber once stacked, especially in warmer conditions. Every board that goes into the kiln or onto the air drying stacks is treated and it costs pennies per board. Work lighting: It sounds patronisingly basic, but get yourself some proper work lights so that you can work into darkness at this time of year. This is the first year where I'm pretty well sorted and what a difference it makes. If you have good quality hardwood butts, you want to be milling them in December, January or February. Daylight and good weather is at a premium, so make the best use of those cold, clear and pleasant days and mill for as long as you can. Then take summer off! Chainsaw mills: If you run a band mill and don't have a chainsaw mill, get one. They are hard work, unpleasant and I hate chainsaw milling, but they are worth their weight in gold. This is mainly for breaking down larger logs for the band mill, or getting those inaccessible trees that would otherwise be cut up for firewood. Or even supplying extra wide boards for a special order. Infact, I've used mine on more than one occasion for chainsaw milling very large butts in half on site so that the available machinery can lift it. If your budget only stretches to a small bandsawmill or a larger chainsaw mill, get the chainsawmill. This list is by no means exhaustive, but in my exhausted state, is all I can think of at the moment. I really look forward to hearing everyone else's tips and hints

Me too! What a day for it as well.

Let's hope that it's being used appropriately. It's not firewood grade, not even close.

There are obviously people with serious disabilities that are completely genuine. Obesity as a result of this is far more understandable, but is a result of a disability, not a disability in itself. For the 95% of obese people who have no one but themselves to blame, it's not something that happens overnight and it's something you are entirely in control of. Even if you are limited to cheap and possibly unhealthy supermarket food, you could always eat less of it.

As I said, my mistake. I looked over the new range of Makitas a little while ago (no longer DCS but EA) and saw stratofied charge engines and assumed electronics. I did have an MS361 for a while, that was a nice saw. If the 6100 is anything like it, it would be a winner.

Not bad at all really. It's just a big grunting lump, and on a 30" bar is ideal for cross cutting at the yard. I think the problem is that like any saw, it's only as good as the sharpening. Given that much of the timber is pretty gritty, the edge on it isn't as good as it would be if I was felling more often. I prefer the DCS7901, and rate it as a better saw, but if you need a simple and affordable 90cc saw, I'd recommend the 9010.

Floor boarding grade. I'd figure on about £2.50 a hoppus foot/£88 a cubic metre (or tonne, given that beech is near enough a tonne a cube). Sounds like lovely timber, but beech never attracts much of a premium sadly.

I stand corrected!

Very well said I can't tell you how much today's ruling has wound me up (the rest of this post might be quite hard to complete without profuse profanity! ). If you are fat, it is almost always your own fault. You either eat too much or don't move enough. It's a very simple equation - energy in and energy out. You only gain weight if there is an imbalance and fixing that imbalance is very easy. You either eat more/less or move more/less. I usually get a little bit tubbier over summer (though those of you who have met me will confirm I am a string bean). The reason for this is that I struggle to work very hard in heat, so shift my work load to the cooler months. So I move less, eat a bit less, but gain a few pounds. Come winter, work steps up a few gears and I get shredded (to use a bodybuilder term) again. Arghh! What the hell is wrong with people in this bloody country? When will they start to take responsibility for their own actions?

I'd be interested to see it, but the new generation of Makitas seem to have become heavier, less powerful and their vibration stats aren't that competitive. Plus they are also now electronic, so the argument for a simpler saw to maintain is gone as well. I can also only find it £32 cheaper than the 560xp.