Aspen@AAOIL

Hope to see many fellow arbtalkers come along and take part in the competition over the next couple of days!

Great to here James

Not sure on USA as it is very new there but in canada it appears to cost between $37-$42 dollars for a 5L can so compared to pump fuel prices, using Aspen in canada is much more expensive than in Europe.

Thank you. any other questions don't hesitate to give us a call

Hi Big J, you are correct in that there is £0.58 of fuel duty on both regular petrol and alkylate fuel although hopefully in the future we can get a reduction when the UK government realise the health benefits of alkylate fuel. In regard to the cost difference, there are lots of reasons why Alkylate fuel is more expensive than regular petrol. It is however important to note that Aspen is not the only company offering this type of fuel although it is the market leader. We have competitors and we have to stay competitive to win our customers business. Producing a cleaner and superior fuel comes at a cost. Aspen only contains around 10 components vs regular petrol which contains over 100. The 90 components we choose not to use are the cheapest and also the most damaging to the human body so if you want a better fuel, it puts the price up unfortunately. I could write about this all day but to simplify things, Aspen is the fillet steak of petrol whereas what you buy at a forecourt is the whole cow put in a blender, hooves and all. Volume supplied is also a big factor which makes this type of fuel more expensive. whilst 50 million litres produced by Aspen sounds a lot. this is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of fuel used throughout Europe and the process of putting it into packages, distribution and retail again adds to the cost. Petrol stations are happy to sell fuel with 3-4p per litre profit as they make a killing when you also buy a newspaper, coffee and chocolate which they have a huge mark up on. It is however unfair to compare the prices of the fuels without fuel duty as there is no way to get around not paying this. Therefore using aspen fuel is not 4 times the cost as you make it out to be. I do understand your question about making it easier to understand the actual cost of the fuel without fuel duty and we could list the prices without the fuel duty but this would be more confusing for most people (petrol stations don't do this). Why on earth our fuel gets subject to road fuel duty is beyond me but that is a government issue which we can only try our best to resolve in the future once a solution to brexit has been decided on. Buying Aspen in bulk which shouldn't be an issue for a business user, the cost per litre ranges from £2.45-£2.64 + vat. As for storage regulations, their are lots of different storage options to comply with regulations which we can always help advise on. using your example of oil pricing above which works out at around 22p per litre. mixing your own unleaded 2-stroke mix may cost around £1.30-£1.40 + vat (depending on local fuel cost and deal you get on the oil) this is actually slightly less than twice the cost and not 4 times the price. Then the real question is what do you get when you pay 90% more for fuel? Healthy staff who are not breathing in carcinogenic emissions all day long Free delivery to your site = no time wasted going to collect fuel ready mixed fuel = no chance of damaged machinery due to wrong or bad mixing and no time wasted doing this Cleaner emissions which are also better for the environment Longer lasting machinery which stay extremely clean on the inside leading to better performance over time long shelf life = no worries of having machines sitting around for longer periods and not starting when you need them when you take into account the benefits, it starts to even out the cost more and more. It wont work out cheaper for everyone but you cant put a price on health. Are you coming to the arbshow? if so then come and try to win yourself a free trial and see the benefits for yourself

Thanks for the heads up on your plans to cheat haha.

Hi Big J, No doubt you use much more fuel in heavy forestry work. For this reason, using alkylate fuels is even more important as your workers will be getting the highest exposure of harmful emissions during their day to day work. As an employer you have a duty of care to look after them. The original founder of Aspen came up with the idea of creating a cleaner fuel for chainsaws after reading a report on the harsh working conditions of forestry workers in Sweden which was linked to a much higher risk of cancer due to the emissions they breathed in on a daily basis.

Hi Mike, There is no requirement for any special clothing, you can take part in your underwear if it makes you feel more comfortable...

No probs James, if you have any problems in the future please let us know. probably worth calling ahead just to be sure

Hi James, I have just spoken to Ambleside Forest & Garden machinery who tell me they have Aspen in stock. Seems strange you were told that they do not have any. Maybe you could try again but please get in touch if you have any issues. Husqvarna XP is not Aspen 2 in a re-branded bottle unfortunately and Aspen has never produced fuel for anyone else or has any plans on doing so in the future. Any dealer can have fuel sent but the cost of shipping makes it uneconomical unless you are buying 54 cans or more. BR Axel 07738642550

Hi Jack, It is highly unlikely that the blend ratio would vary enough to visually make a noticable difference on the amount of smoke produced between batches of Aspen 2. The way that the oil is blended into the fuel ensures that the mix ratio stays super consistent, much much better than you or i could achieve when mixing using traditional methods. Possible thoughts: 1) Has the machine been used on regular fuel since the last time it was run on Aspen? i ask this because Aspen can have a cleaning effect where it gets rid of the carbon build up from previous fuel/oil mixtures in the exhaust. 2) Has anything been changed on the machine since it was last used? if it runs fine apart from the smoke it is unlikely to have any issues. 3) perhaps the temperature was much colder when the machine was used this time which can make it look like it was making more smoke? consider how you can see your breath on a cold day. Axel@aaoil

Hey guys, Sorry I didn't reply over the weekend, I did see that there had been some interesting replies in this thread but I did not feel that I could do these questions any justice responding from my phone. Gardenkit has done a great job as always by stepping in and answering most of the questions but I will try to cover your questions in one go to try to clear things up and apologies in advance if something is missed as i am sure you can understand it is difficult to answer 10s of questions at once. Firstly i think it is important to tackle the question regarding my bold claim which was essentially saying that Aspen 2 is the best 2-stroke mix for your chainsaws/powertools. It's important to note that when I talk about the best 2-stroke mix for your machines, I am always referring to your 2-stroke power tools which Aspen is designed for. Aspen 2 is not designed for competition 2-stroke motorcycles, just like redline racing (or any other bike oil) is not designed for chainsaws... These applications place different requirements on the oil. It is important to also note that the role of a 2-stroke oil is not only to lubricate the engine internals. It must also keep the combustion chamber clean, mix well with petrol, not lower the performance of fuels combustibility, keep smoke levels down and not clog the exhaust. The Jaso standard which have been brought up in this topic are ratings which were designed to help consumers choose the best oils for their 2-stroke scooters. typically in cramped cities where there are much more 2-stroke bikes than in the UK, these bikes have a very negative impact on the local air quality and in general an FD oil would improve this over an FA. As Gardenkit already mentioned however, these tests are not difficult to pass and there are no tests or gradings which show oils which surpass these requirements. for more information on JASO ratings i suggest you look on google and you can find the specifications. The oil in Aspen 2 changed in late 2014 as newer and better oil technology became available. Stihl 4-mix engines in particular, are very demanding on the quality of 2-stroke oils and many oils on the market will cause the valve stems to soot up and fail (as would the previous blend of aspen oil). Over 1000’s of hours of field testing of various 2-stroke blends along with tests in the lab made Aspen decide on the Oil which you will now find in Aspen 2. Its also very important to note that the 2-stroke oil portion of your fuel/oil mix is only 2% on a 50:1 mix. The rest is made up of the petrol you choose to mix it with which also makes a difference to the protection of your engine and a much greater difference to the exhaust emissions which can have a negative effect on operator health. The oil mix is only as good as the operator is at mixing and by using a ready mixed fuel such as Aspen 2, you do not have to worry about the consistency of this blend. As Garden kit mentioned. Aspen’s reputation and business model relies on supplying the best fuels for man, machine and environment and they are constantly looking to make improvements as new technologies become available. As the 2-stroke oil is a very big part of what makes our product unique, it is not sold on its own and the recipe/specs are not readily available as you must appreciate. Aspen sells over 50 million litres of fuel each year specifically for small engine machinery such as chainsaws and are regarded as the market leader in this sector. Popularity is constantly growing as happy customers experience the difference.

That sounds about right! Rest assured that your machines are getting the best protection if you are using Aspen 2

I don't know why this mechanic would say that, it is certainly not an issue that we have seen and over 50 million litres of Aspen is sold each year so plenty of testing! The oil in Aspen 2 is not available separately and is of a quality which exceeds anything on the market for 2 stroke power tools. It is fully synthetic and bio-degradable with a low Ash content and High lubricity. If you would be able to send me a pm with the name of the dealer, i can investigate further as to whats going on to cause him to say what he did

I wish it could be cheaper too as it would make my job a lot easier! I know it sounds a lot more expensive than using regular 2-stroke mix on paper, £9 compared to £15.50 - £20 depending on how its purchased, but in reality, 2-stroke fuel is a very small part of your outgoings as a tree surgeon and most people who make the switch quickly realise that the benefits far outweigh the small increase in operating expenses. It's one of those things that are hard to justify until you have used it for an extended period of time. A bit like using a ported saw in a way, once you've used the ported version, the standard version will usually feel far inferior.

Not that it matters but IMO, probably because he doesn't see the benefits of Aspen enough to justify the cost over regular fuel, what do you think?. Wasn't trying to "threadjack" but merely offering some advice and provide some facts ?

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news but you will never get close to the emission benefits of running Aspen without actually using it. An old chainsaw will have much lower benzene emissions running on Aspen than the leanest burning new models on the market running regular petrol.

Hi Al, The Aspen bio-chain oil (new version came out this year) is designed to provide optimum lubrication to the chain and oil pump. compared to many bio chain oils (including the previously available Aspen version) Aspen bio chain oil can be left in machines for a much longer period without hardening or causing blockages within the oil pump. Previously, domestic customers in particular have been put of from using bio chain oils from this reason and this product allows them to use it instead of mineral oils (we all know why they are bad). I do admit that the benefits of the Aspen chain oil compared to something else on the market are not as big as the difference between Aspen fuel and regular petrol however, which is a night and day improvement in terms of emissions and ease of handling. Aspen being too expensive to use commercially however, i would strongly disagree with. You can't put a price on health and most companies end up surprising themselves on how much fuel they actually use when they switch to Aspen. More often than not, it is far less than they thought in the first place, making it not as expensive as they first thought.

Hi Stuart, Can confirm that the Aspen bio-chain oil is not made from palm oil but we wont be re-branding it for Iceland either way

you said it not me...

HSE advices no more than 30 litres of petrol should be stored at a residential address. for a business there is no limit on this as long as the correct risk assessments have been completed and the fuel is stored safely.

Hi Steve, Don't forget to include the cost of 2-stroke oil when making this kind of comparison. a basic 2 stroke oil is going to cost about 0.13 pence per litre (+vat) when purchased in bulk and something similar to the oil used in Aspen 2 would set you back around 35 pence per litre (+VAT). based on 800 litres your cost would then be £1037 + VAT compared to £2032 + VAT for Aspen. This price for Aspen includes delivery to your site which often saves a lot of time travelling to get fuel and your machinery will benefit in terms of performance in the long run. unfortunately your fuel usage is going to be much higher than most people on this forum if your work involves constant felling but its worth considering that generally, the higher your fuel usage, the higher your exposure will be to the nasties in regular petrol. From experience of talking to companies who make the switch over to Aspen. More often than not, their fuel usage seems to decrease so the cost is generally not as bad as first thought. If this is down to an actual decrease in fuel usage or if the volume of fuel they thought they were using was over-inflated is hard to tell but it's generally always a positive outcome for the business.

100% Hopefully this is an issue which can be addressed post brexit... We will start a new petition and with the help of this forum i hope we can drum up some momentum before talking to the people who set fuel duty in the UK once again.

This would be great but unfortunately the investment for dealers to do this properly would be very high. I hope that one day this could be a service that can be offered but this can only happen if more and more business' get behind the product with the options available today in order to grow the volume to allow this to happen.

We hope to have them in the UK early 2019, they are making a few small changes before they are ready for retail. Sorry about teasing everyone at the shows for so long with this but good things come to those who wait...