AA Teccie (Paul)

Hi Iain, I'll try to make this my last one...honest! "and it is perhaps more palatable to the industry, than telling them how to suck eggs" I don't believe this is the approach HSE are taking, nor expect of industry. On reading the ACOP to the Management Regs & PUWER ("oh joy") it refers explicitly to new technologies, techniques and equipment etc. in the context of refresher training and not returning to basics. The fact an industry sector has chosen that route is their prerogative I guess and presumably based on unacceptably high accident figures...perhaps therefore justified, dunno, I guess the future will tell. Reet, not gonna waffle any longer so will bid you farewell an have a good weekend. Cheers.. Paul

Hi Iain, a good point, well made. My approach was to try to meet the HSE 'general' refresher training recommendations (a 'KEY' word) AND, at the same time, advance operators by learning new skills and techniques....or reinforce what they are doing is correct. This could be applied in the workplace perhaps if you had a cooperative and flexible assessor who was willing and could accommodate it, i.e. next time you're doing a large felling as a job get an assessor along and "kill two birds with one stone", so to speak (not sure if that would be acceptable to the awarding bodies but the assessor themselves could endorse it.) The application of the skills, as you quite rightly state, is the essence of safe working practice and this is where true competence, and proficiency, should be observed. This is what we endeavour to assess as part of the ARB Approved Contractor process in Module 1. Worksite Safety Inspection, so there is a mechanism already available. Perhaps, and just thinking out loud, the qualified assessor, who is too much in 'assessment mode', might miss the broader competence issue for want of the technical detail of the operation. For instance, I wouldn't fail a business because the guy up the tree, or on the ground, occasionally forgot to put their visor down or earmuffs on, akin to crossing hands on the steering wheel if you re-took your driving test, provided it was not habitual (and then it's often a management, in the broadest sense, issue, or rather lack of.) Conversely, I do accept there are limitations in using an assessor for ARB Approved who doesn't understand the key skills / techniques applicable to the operation. So, as with everything, it's a balance. Lastly, fer now, R2 will need basic / core skills to both be attained, i.e. certificates / 'tickets', but more importantly then consolidated in the workplace before being signed of as competent and proficient by a 'supervisor', so a similar outcome. (Anticipating a question, in a small business they will be able to access the supervisor role externally...but not quite sure how that will work yet.) Thanks for the post and the 'different angle', very valuable. Cheers.. Paul

Ben, Does the 'down-plate' still apply if you don't have the chipper attached...probably a stupid question but you know me Vehicles / licences / entitlements / towing weights / GVWs / MAMs ...does mi ed in!!! Cheers.. Paul

I'd say 'bog standard' Silver Birch (B. pendula) twin-stemmed. Bark doesn't look white enough for Jacquemontii I would suggest. Cheers.. Paul

DON'T. Under the (exceptional) circumstances, can they not be left in situ n 'treated / poisoned'? Otherwise spade / mattock / axe n 'hard graft'...wait for a cold day, n get paid day rate. Take it steady.. Paul

I have to say that's not been my experience of HSE, I've usually found them to be reasonable and pragmatic and willing to listen to industry. That's not to say they don't also concern themselves with procedure, but without that, whether written or not, there would no risk assessment / safe system of work / competence training etc. Not sure about your second statement either but clearly we are, almost, at different ends of the spectrum here so we need some middle ground. That is to concentrate refresher / update / up-skilling training, ideally in combination, to those activities where major change in techniques / technologies / equipment etc. has occurred. This may not be via formalised refresher training, i.e. with an external training, although that's always easier to evidence / validate with certs etc., but by reading mags / ARBTALK , by attending workshops, and arb shows, by observing others...there's a who myriad of ways this happens...but it happens! Still, onwards and upwards, and good to debate. take care out there.. Paul PS I do acknowledge that those who are highly skilled and experienced are much less likely to have an incident / accident and hence the need to evidence their 'improved knowledge and skills' is reduced....perhaps!

Hi Iain, hope you're well. The areas of 'refresher/update' training and competence I concentrate on emphasising the importance of are climbing, aerial rescue and rigging as there have been significant advances / 'changes' in the last few years....and first aid of course. I think this makes sense and justifies the expenditure incurred (easy for me to say I know but it should also be viewed as an investment / CPD etc.) Regarding ground based chainsaw skills, we often see only CS31 (as was, and often 10 years or more ago) and hence require a refresher / update / up-skill to CS32/33 (as was, now combined and "felling trees more than 380mm dia.") within 2 yrs. under the ArbAC Scheme. I hope the industry, both the tree surgery and the training / assessment sectors, consider this 'reasonable' as HSE appear to. Cheers.. Paul

BUMP... ...and to say this workshop WILL run, so please form an orderly queue (ha) and contact Jess ([email protected]) Thanks all and hope to see you there. Paul

I too think this is highly unlikely for the reasons you've mentioned. The only possibility where it will be enforced is contractors working on term contracts with Local Authorities...but that will then have an impact on cost and LAs won't like that either!

BUMP...and I promise not to 'over-do' the section on the benefits of refresher training Places still available. Cheers.. Paul

That's not my understanding, i.e. that HSE have "pushed it through", it has, in effect, come from the industry itself through FISA. Hence it will be for the 'Arb' industry to decide whether to follow suit but the difference is the landowners / main contractors sway is different as many work in the domestic sector. If, for instance, the Local Authority network nationally endorsed it, then it might happen...to some extent. Nonetheless it does raise awareness and sets a precedent...perhaps, so worth giving it some thought. I would suggest looking at the key areas where there have been changes in the last 5-10 years, i.e. tree climbing / aerial rescue / rigging and concentrate there in the first instance. After that update your CS31 (as was, now felling upto 380mm dia.) to CS32/CS33 (as was, now felling in excess of 380mm) then onto windblow perhaps. Hence you're deffo learning new stuff along the way which makes it more interesting...and fun! Cheers.. Paul

Hi Tim, hope you're well. A definite 'causal' link, probably not to be honest, but training in some context, i.e. none / insufficient / of poor quality / a long time ago, is often cited as a contributory factor in tree work accidents / incidents. Hence the refresher training argument carries some relevance. HSE have some figures, and admittedly they do include 'none industry specialists, just as will be the case for construction, and pro-rata, i.e. per 1,000 workers, we are very close. Offshore oil industry is a different thing all together I would suggest and accepted as being exceptional in terms of high risk activity. Cheers.. Paul

Sorry, and I'm sure there's loadsa good stuff here but please try to embrace 'refresher training', never easy I know and partic when "forced" on you, but it is in your interest and our accident rate is high. The essence of effective refresher training is to both refresh and advance, wherever possible i.e. new techniques / technologies, and of course to knock off those bad habits you've picked up Not sure that simply redoing your NPTCs / competence certificates / licence to practice, will achieve this. Cheers.. Paul

Hi Chris (ArbAC!!!) As others have said, if it's not on (dessicated) shrinkable clay then shouldn't be a problem. If it is, one would hope the trees, and their future growth, and ultimate removal, would have taken into account at the design / build stage. Further, whilst no expert, my understanding is that if there is a problem likely to occur it's far more likely to be subsidence than consequential heave. All in all, I would suggest if the client wants them out, then out they go. Cheers.. Paul PS Others have correctly stated there is no evidence to support the claim for phased removal and, as others have also said, IF it's gonna heave it'll do so anyway. PPS Seen subsidence many times (in Cheltenham as a TO) but heave only once....it did run into many hundreds of thousands in costs tho as they built 12 1/2 million pound houses on an old woodland site and whilst the foundations took account of this this floor construction didn't n hence they all popped up after about 2 years...OOOPS

Supervisor and mentor, i.e. passing on your skills to the younger generation. Too many very skilled and knowledgeable people leave this industry when they get to your stage and that's to the detriment of all. Doing ARB Approved Contractor assessments, when we get to the worksite, if there's a supervisor/foreman in place with your kind of experience running the job and controlling the ground based activities and site management, they usually run like clockwork with no problems. When you have inexperienced guys with limited knowledge and maturity, things often go wrong. Speak to your employer / 'engager' (if self-employed) about opportunities...maybe go do a H&S management course, i.e. CoSS / IOSH etc. to bolster your position. Good luck!!! Paul

Hello Koert, and welcome to 'ARBTALK'..I'm sure you'll receive some very good advice here and a range of opinions. My opinion would be that past management, i.e. pollarding / topping, has dictated the future management options, i.e. re-pollarding. Obviously you could do nothing and monitor the tree conditions and development of cavities / decay at the previous pruning / cutting points (likely to be more significant in the Lime than the Plane in my experience) OR you could create new 'pollard heads' at a higher level up the regrowth stems if there is a desire to control / restrict the heights of the trees and commit to regular management, i.e. again re-pollarding. In conclusion, do the trees have a poor structure...or just a different one. I'll look forward to seeing this thread development. "Buenos dias mi amigo" Paul

There's the Scotland one at the end of October, one in SE in early Nov. and then, hopefully, one in 'the North' (poss. Holmfirth) in early December. "Watch this space." Cheers.. Paul

Hi all, a quick 'heads up', if I may. We are proposing to run a workshop at the Royal Highland Showground (nr. Edinburgh Airport) on Wed. 30th October provided we get enough interest. Hence if you're interested please register with my colleague [email protected] who is coordinating the event. Many thanks.. Paul

That's easy, "look left, look right, n hold on tight!" No worries, hope it goes well. Cheers.. Paul

BUMP...c'mon you know you want to...and need to, to stay ahead of the competition..."ready, steady, goooooooooooooooooooo"

Hi all, Should anyone be interested , and available, there is an ArbAC workshop at Parkhill Training, Seagrave, Loughborough on Wed. 9th October...your opportunity to find out more and to check if you're operating as a compliant contractor. The workshop is£50 (+VAT) per delegate but this is refunded on application for ArbAC assessment. For further info see AA Approved Contractor Preparation Workshop ? Training and I have attached a course booking form below for your convenience (please complete and return to Head Office, tel. 01242 522152 or email [email protected]) Thanks all and look forward to seeing you there...hope the room's big enuff Cheers.. Paul aa_training_booking_form-0313.doc

Pricing I can't help with I'm afraid but 'reputable' bf contractors...you could consider ARB Approved Contractors or other accreditation scheme memberships. Paul

See the sub-contractor section on the AA website at Help becoming an ARB Approved Contractor , and the attached, as a start point. Good luck.. Paul SubContractorChecklist(v1).doc

2 years HSE recommend.

Further investigations as FH is very common on Oak and, according to Lonsdale, only renders the tree likely to fail when decay is very advanced (I've never seen it.) I've also heard that this fungus may be part and parcel of the Oak's lifecycle including hollowing with age. Still doubtless other 'experts' will be along shortly but please don't rush in with the chainsaw. Cheers.. Paul