Taupotreeman

I'd ring a couple of weeks before just to confirm that they still want the job doing. There's no harm though in trying to make your peace with them and explain the situation. You'll probably have to drop the bill but as someone else pointed out, better than them slagging you off to prospective customers.

Had a spate of them in the central North Island last year. Nothing major, the biggest were about 4.3 - 4.4 on the scale but we had over 200 in two weeks. The one in Christchurch was a doozy though. Got to be thankful no one was killed but same day same island and 9 people die in a plane crash. Bummer.

I don't think the pictures on TV do it justice. I'd imagine it looks worse in the flesh so to speak. They reckon the state of emergency will last for at least a week while they check sewage lines, electricity etc. Glad to hear there were no fatalities though. Musta been hell scarey. Had a friend up in Te Aroha that got woken by it so must have been one hell of a shake.

Nothing to do with trees but I woke up this morning to hear that a massive earthquake had hit Christchurch in the South Island. 7.1 on the Richter scale and in the last five hours there's been about 14 aftershocks of magnitude 4 or greater. Shaky Isles indeed. A state of emergency has been issued for the city and surrounding districts.

I suppose if you're not so good with explaining yourself in written form you can get yourself in a right royal muddle and end up saying something that you didn't actually mean. It pays to have thick skin sometimes. Or to just accept that everybody has a right to an opinion even if you do not agree with it. A boring world it would surely be if we all agreed on everything.

Agreed. Regardless of your point of view it's all good reading. I'd hate to have this discussion in a pub alltogether though. It could turn volatile.

I started putting a note on my invoices that if payment isn't made within 7 days of invoice a late payment fee of 10% applies. If they don't pay on time I send out a new invoice with 10% added. A cheque usually returns (not including the 10%) pretty quickly but you get the odd one or two that decide they'll pay when they're good and ready. Drives me round the bend as cash flow is all important. Debt collectors cost a small fortune here so for smaller debts it's not worth using them and the shrewder customers know this. I end up getting myself twisted into knots because some eejit just can't be bothered to pay on time.

I often have my MP3 player going under my headphones if it's a small job. I tell all my customers I can't hear them and if they need me they should wave. Strangely, they all come up to me and start talking so I ignore some of them until they get the idea. I do try and do it without being ignorant though and some custies are great to have a chat with. I find the worst ones are those that ring up at 8.30 9 Oclockish at night and want to talk about their Camellias or garden plantings. I had one recently that spent an hour on the phone talking about the possibilites of uprooting shrubs to move them 2 feet to the left or right to improve the payout of the garden. Drove me nuts and she just kept going and going. Couldn't get a word in edgeways. On the flip side; had a customer the other day that fought the Japanese and in Italy. We had a fair old yarn after the job was compleeted and I never felt like I needed to leave at anytime.

Sounds like timbercutterdartmoor might do well as debt collector

Anybody taken down a tree for no other reason than because the land owner wanted it down? How would you justify that? And, to some degree, I'm happy to admit I usually put financial above the health of a tree. That doesn't mean to say I spike trees for the sake of a quick job. I don't. But I do need to keep a roof above my head, food in my guts and support the family therefore keeping the work rolling in is the overriding factor. I could refuse to carry out many works that I don't agree with but would eventually go under as there are plenty of other outfits that WILL do the work. Then I'd end up working for them and doing the same work I refused anyway or would have to get some sort of other work. As for spiking at Asplundh; it's neither a reason nor an excuse it just what was done on the orders of the supervisor. The contract was a large one and we had to keep the company happy in order not to lose the contract. All crew members working on the contract had to spike, almost like a production line mentality. I'm not proud of it but then the trees came out the other side of the 1995 fires with no ill effects so.....

Hmmm, can of worms, opened, me thinks.

Sorry guys, I might have hijacked the thread a little with the topping of trees scenario. Got a bit carried away I'm afraid. This side of the world many councils don't have an arborist on staff but only parks and reserves people. Many of the orders come down from the top i.e councillors, mayors etc and they dictate what is and isn't done to trees. It's been so long established that topping trees is OK it's now embedded in the entire council staff that this is the done thing anything different is frowned upon. Back on the spikes subject; I worked for Asplundh in Oz for a year clearing transmission lines. On site we had a site supervisor from the power company that insisted all trees were spiked as it was quicker. Worse still was the trees were cut off at line level. No growth points, nothing. We called em Moffett gums after the supervisor. They were basically totum poles. Failure to put on the spikes at the start of the day resulted in you being kicked off site and a black mark against your name. No excuses.

Local Council here has it written in to their tree and vegetation policy that certain trees can be topped to allow views of the lake or mountains. That's council owned trees trimmed for private views. Sorry, off thread there but you get the idea of what we're dealing with here.

I didn't say that I used spikes to get up a tree that was going to be topped or re-topped or pruned for that matter, I was just trying to find out why, if the tree is already hacked to smithereens, spiking it makes such a big difference. It seems plenty of people are more than happy to top a tree if the price is right (and believe me, we can't all be choosy about the jobs we turn down) but won't spike because it damages the tree. I admire those that won't top trees under any circumstances and I wish I was financially stable enough to take that attitude but those that harp on about not spiking but then are happy to take down a healthy tree or top another so the land owner can have a view...... isn't that somewhat like the pot calling the kettle?

In an ideal world I would turn down most topping jobs but topping of trees makes up a high percentage of work in this place because most people want a view of the lake or mountains. That includes local council. I and most of the other arb companies here would be pretty short on work if we didn't accept the work, believe me, a couple have tried not to go down this path and it has backfired big time. I try to educate but most owners just want the tree "shaped". Like a mushroom. cos that's what shape trees are in the natural world. No wonder I have no hair left.

I'll ask again. If a customer asks you to top out a tree leaving stubs etc because they want that lovely mushroom look (yeah right), whats the problem spiking it? I have no problem understanding not spiking a nice tree with ongoing aesthetic qualities etc but if you're just going to hack the daylights out of the tree anyway and leave big wounds with none back to growth points why worry about a few extra spike holes? From what I've read on here most people are happy to top a tree when money is short and surely that has just as much a detremental effect on the tree so are we saying that we must never spike a tree but it's OK to top it because we're running short of cash? Just trying to look at it from a different perspective that's all.

As an after thought; Can I ask how many of the older climbers on this forum (who weren't taught at colleges etc) got themselves up a tree? Is it more likely that the old school climbers make more use of ladders and spikes and the younger guys use equipment like the big shot etc and are adept at throw lining?

For me it depends on the tree and my safety. Around my area there are also a lot of massacred trees. Heavy topping etc etc so spiking up them isn't going to cause anymore damage than has already occurred through bad pruning. I know that's a pretty feeble excuse but what's the difference between hacking the top off a perfectly good tree year after year until it's rotten to the core, and putting some spike holes in it. No point trying to look after a decidedly sick tree when the land owner can't see sense, take it out and replace it with something more suitable. We also have a lot of big gnarly Poplars that farmers want the tops hacked off to be used as shelter belts. Same reasoning applies.

I studied at Riseholme college back in the late 80's. There were still some big old elms around the grounds there but the Forestry dept was in the process of removing them all as most were dead or half dead. Would have kept some of the fires burning for a while as some of them were huge.

There's a famous case of a chap in prison that had a laurel growing outside his window. He managed to extract the cyanide from the leaves and poisoned the guards before making his escape. I can't remember the full details but it's something along those lines. Try standing in the back of a chip bin full of freshly chipped camphor laurel. Sorts out blocked noses instantly.

Sorry to jump in half way through this thread and I'm afraid I haven't read it all but can some one tell me when it was first obligatory that you had to have qualifications before you were hired? I trained in forestry and conservation at an agricultural college in Lincoln before being hired on as a trainee climber back in loughborough. I never had any qualifications in arb until I came to NZ and needed them for residency. Everybody before that took me on with a probation period while I proved myself, no quals ever really asked for. As for who is better, old school or the new brigade; I've seen the bad and the good in both. The old school boys knew how to make the most of the lesser tools they had, bearing in mind the improvements in gear over the last few years, but some of the new boys seem to expect the gear to do half the job for them and if a piece of gear is left at home they're stumped as how to get up the tree without it. Mind you, a lot of this new stuff sure does make the job easier. Three strand rope with three strand prussicks that locked up in the wet? Not anymore.

Did several local council garden clearance jobs back in blighty before I left. Long grass, washing machines, wasps nests, the usual sort of stuff. The worst part was when I was strimming the gardens and I would hit a pile of barker nests which would be sprayed everywhere by the strimmer and then finely seperated by the face visor on my helmet. Picking bits of dog doos out of your teeth, eyebrows and hair is not fun and the stink seems to hang around in your nostrils for ever no matter how much you shower. Personally if the garden was full of the stuff I'd just move on to the next job until it was cleaned up. It can be a health hazard and I don't quote to clear up turds before starting the job. If it's just one or two I'll shift it myself but I'm not making up for the dog owner's bone idleness. Mind you, tramping it through the house to make a point sounds good but if the garden is in such a state what's the house going to be like and would they even notice?

Forgot about the steering box. Mine leaked aswell but I put some of that metal compound stuff on it and it seems to have stopped the leaks. Sunroof leaked, rear windows don't work, cruise control pleases itself when it comes on and when it doesn't but just like brewx1; if it died today I'd buy another in a heart beat. They cost sweet fanny adams over here and if you get a jap import they won't have the rust. I put up with all the odds and sods that don't work just cos I love landrovers. If you can get past all their little foibles they're a great machine for proper 4WD drive work and real comfy too. No worries about getting stuck in a muddy paddock, unlike some of the toyotas and stuff that have that pretend 4WD system.

Do you think you'll still be allowed to climb them if this Kauri disease gets a real good foot hold? Apparently it's starting to run riot up in Auckland and Northland and there's a major panic on over the future of these giants.

Oh Dear! Renowned for blowing head gaskets. Give the radiator a thorough draining and clean out, and replace the thermostat. I had a thermostat seize up on me, blew the top hose and emptied all the water out of the engine. Blew the gasket clean out. Also make sure that it isn't one of the models with the computer system located just above the rear wheels. Get it dunked in water and it'll blow the electrics and computer. Mind you, better than buying one of those wheezy BMW deisel versions eh? Don't worry about the petrol; I have an old 3.9 V8 Disco and I love driving it so much the fuel bill doesn't bother me in the slightest. Plus, cos it was a cheapy it doesn't matter if it gets bashed around and used for carting saws and stuff to those jobs in the middle of a paddock. Had a Surf before which blew a gasket and the gear box so wouldn't buy another japper anyway. If it puts a smile on your dial life's all good.