Taupotreeman

Stephen, interested to know if you tell all your customers, on acceptance of the job, that your terms are strictly cash etc and have you had people opt out of the job because they don't want to deal with cash. Also, do you get many that accept the job under those terms and then start with the excuses thing once it comes time to pay or have you weedled out all these eejits and now have a reliable customer base that you can trust? I like the idea though and I have to say that I'm not usually that worried about not getting repeat work because I have had to chase money. If they much around with paying first time then they are likely to do the same next time and I'd prefer to do without the hassle because of the stress.

That's one of the worst things about bad payers. Getting your knickers in a twist and then spending all day in a bad mood and fretting over how to deal with the bad debt. I've been told by some people that I shouldn't worry about it and that the debtor will pay eventually but that isn't the point. Job has been done, payment required. NOW. Please!

I've done a couple of trees like this with a big back lean but I have the use of a 12 ton forestry forwarder with an eight ton winch on it. Even with that I don't think I'd have risked it with the live lines behind. It would only take one thing to go wrong to risk bringing the lines down. Live lines on the floor (if the fuse didn't blow) is not a scenario I want to have to deal with not withstanding having to explain myself to the utility company. I think I would have taken the extra time to dismantle with the EPV and saved myself the prospect of soiled undies and some serious explaining. Isn't that what an insulated EPV is for? To make the job safer and reduce the risks?

Agreed. If they say they'll pay in 60 days and they pay on that date at least you can budget but I don't think I could make it for 60 days. Most Larger outfits here have a 30 day policy but my wife's boss has debts that have been outstanding for over 6 months and because she hasn't chased them she's probably got two hopes of getting paid now. The worst ones are those that, no matter how many nasty letters you send, still don't pay. Just had one I did through an estate agent. The house owner was desperate to get the work done but once the job was completed they cut off all communications with the estate agent. The estate agent had to pay from funds held in bond for the property. Does anyone here worry about sending reminder letters to overdue payers in case you lose repeat business? Or is it a case of once payment is overdue it's a risk you will take?

Just a couple form an old job but it looks like you've found what you're looking for.

Used to do 6 monthly first aid and electrical awerness refreshers but haven't done one for a while. Never done any form of climbing refresher but was always learning new stuff when the new guys came on board with more up to date techniques. Since I've been out on my own the only learning I do is either from web videos or things posted on here or from mistakes (learning the hard way). I don't think they run too many refresher courses in NZ as such and if the electrical awareness stuff is anything to go by they'd be pretty expensive. Some of the bigger outfits have their own in house training but once you've past your exams etc there's nothing after. Just a case of getting on a crew with guys that have experience in various aspects of the job, e.g. moving from a utility crew to a municipal crew to a land clearing crew. Some of the cross credit training here was a bit of a joke whereby guys that couldn't even climb a tree had their quals endorsed with tickets to do crane and helicopter work.

Any drill holes in the trees? People in Taupo don't give a monkeys if someone notices. If it ruins their view its out with the drill and roundup. Other than that, check to see if the soil around the trees smells oily like others have suggested.

Not long after I fist started out I was working with the bosses original climber on some treesa round a cemetary. We were removing limbs overhanging an old victorian (original) wrought iron fence. I asked the groundy (ex climber) several times if one particualr limb needed roping and he was adamant that the branch would miss the fence. Yeah Right. Cold day, wrought iron fence vs large limb equals 1500 quid bill and a very unhappy boss. That's probaly the worst, apart from busting my leg when a limb I was rigging got caught by the wind and came back butt first into my leg. Four weeks on crutches and a bruise from waist to little toe.

I'd ring a couple of weeks before just to confirm that they still want the job doing. There's no harm though in trying to make your peace with them and explain the situation. You'll probably have to drop the bill but as someone else pointed out, better than them slagging you off to prospective customers.

Had a spate of them in the central North Island last year. Nothing major, the biggest were about 4.3 - 4.4 on the scale but we had over 200 in two weeks. The one in Christchurch was a doozy though. Got to be thankful no one was killed but same day same island and 9 people die in a plane crash. Bummer.

I don't think the pictures on TV do it justice. I'd imagine it looks worse in the flesh so to speak. They reckon the state of emergency will last for at least a week while they check sewage lines, electricity etc. Glad to hear there were no fatalities though. Musta been hell scarey. Had a friend up in Te Aroha that got woken by it so must have been one hell of a shake.

Nothing to do with trees but I woke up this morning to hear that a massive earthquake had hit Christchurch in the South Island. 7.1 on the Richter scale and in the last five hours there's been about 14 aftershocks of magnitude 4 or greater. Shaky Isles indeed. A state of emergency has been issued for the city and surrounding districts.

I suppose if you're not so good with explaining yourself in written form you can get yourself in a right royal muddle and end up saying something that you didn't actually mean. It pays to have thick skin sometimes. Or to just accept that everybody has a right to an opinion even if you do not agree with it. A boring world it would surely be if we all agreed on everything.

Agreed. Regardless of your point of view it's all good reading. I'd hate to have this discussion in a pub alltogether though. It could turn volatile.

I started putting a note on my invoices that if payment isn't made within 7 days of invoice a late payment fee of 10% applies. If they don't pay on time I send out a new invoice with 10% added. A cheque usually returns (not including the 10%) pretty quickly but you get the odd one or two that decide they'll pay when they're good and ready. Drives me round the bend as cash flow is all important. Debt collectors cost a small fortune here so for smaller debts it's not worth using them and the shrewder customers know this. I end up getting myself twisted into knots because some eejit just can't be bothered to pay on time.

I often have my MP3 player going under my headphones if it's a small job. I tell all my customers I can't hear them and if they need me they should wave. Strangely, they all come up to me and start talking so I ignore some of them until they get the idea. I do try and do it without being ignorant though and some custies are great to have a chat with. I find the worst ones are those that ring up at 8.30 9 Oclockish at night and want to talk about their Camellias or garden plantings. I had one recently that spent an hour on the phone talking about the possibilites of uprooting shrubs to move them 2 feet to the left or right to improve the payout of the garden. Drove me nuts and she just kept going and going. Couldn't get a word in edgeways. On the flip side; had a customer the other day that fought the Japanese and in Italy. We had a fair old yarn after the job was compleeted and I never felt like I needed to leave at anytime.

Sounds like timbercutterdartmoor might do well as debt collector

Anybody taken down a tree for no other reason than because the land owner wanted it down? How would you justify that? And, to some degree, I'm happy to admit I usually put financial above the health of a tree. That doesn't mean to say I spike trees for the sake of a quick job. I don't. But I do need to keep a roof above my head, food in my guts and support the family therefore keeping the work rolling in is the overriding factor. I could refuse to carry out many works that I don't agree with but would eventually go under as there are plenty of other outfits that WILL do the work. Then I'd end up working for them and doing the same work I refused anyway or would have to get some sort of other work. As for spiking at Asplundh; it's neither a reason nor an excuse it just what was done on the orders of the supervisor. The contract was a large one and we had to keep the company happy in order not to lose the contract. All crew members working on the contract had to spike, almost like a production line mentality. I'm not proud of it but then the trees came out the other side of the 1995 fires with no ill effects so.....

Hmmm, can of worms, opened, me thinks.

Sorry guys, I might have hijacked the thread a little with the topping of trees scenario. Got a bit carried away I'm afraid. This side of the world many councils don't have an arborist on staff but only parks and reserves people. Many of the orders come down from the top i.e councillors, mayors etc and they dictate what is and isn't done to trees. It's been so long established that topping trees is OK it's now embedded in the entire council staff that this is the done thing anything different is frowned upon. Back on the spikes subject; I worked for Asplundh in Oz for a year clearing transmission lines. On site we had a site supervisor from the power company that insisted all trees were spiked as it was quicker. Worse still was the trees were cut off at line level. No growth points, nothing. We called em Moffett gums after the supervisor. They were basically totum poles. Failure to put on the spikes at the start of the day resulted in you being kicked off site and a black mark against your name. No excuses.

Local Council here has it written in to their tree and vegetation policy that certain trees can be topped to allow views of the lake or mountains. That's council owned trees trimmed for private views. Sorry, off thread there but you get the idea of what we're dealing with here.

I didn't say that I used spikes to get up a tree that was going to be topped or re-topped or pruned for that matter, I was just trying to find out why, if the tree is already hacked to smithereens, spiking it makes such a big difference. It seems plenty of people are more than happy to top a tree if the price is right (and believe me, we can't all be choosy about the jobs we turn down) but won't spike because it damages the tree. I admire those that won't top trees under any circumstances and I wish I was financially stable enough to take that attitude but those that harp on about not spiking but then are happy to take down a healthy tree or top another so the land owner can have a view...... isn't that somewhat like the pot calling the kettle?

In an ideal world I would turn down most topping jobs but topping of trees makes up a high percentage of work in this place because most people want a view of the lake or mountains. That includes local council. I and most of the other arb companies here would be pretty short on work if we didn't accept the work, believe me, a couple have tried not to go down this path and it has backfired big time. I try to educate but most owners just want the tree "shaped". Like a mushroom. cos that's what shape trees are in the natural world. No wonder I have no hair left.

I'll ask again. If a customer asks you to top out a tree leaving stubs etc because they want that lovely mushroom look (yeah right), whats the problem spiking it? I have no problem understanding not spiking a nice tree with ongoing aesthetic qualities etc but if you're just going to hack the daylights out of the tree anyway and leave big wounds with none back to growth points why worry about a few extra spike holes? From what I've read on here most people are happy to top a tree when money is short and surely that has just as much a detremental effect on the tree so are we saying that we must never spike a tree but it's OK to top it because we're running short of cash? Just trying to look at it from a different perspective that's all.

As an after thought; Can I ask how many of the older climbers on this forum (who weren't taught at colleges etc) got themselves up a tree? Is it more likely that the old school climbers make more use of ladders and spikes and the younger guys use equipment like the big shot etc and are adept at throw lining?