Climbing Kit, Loler and the Sole Trader, Whats the Point?

[JaySmith]

I can see this from both sides. £90 does seem excessive unless you have a particularly large kit. However the inspection regime is a good thing as far as I am concerned. Think of younger more inexperienced climbers who don't have the knowledge and experience that you have, the fact that a 'competent person' goes over their kit every 6 months must be a good thing. Also if an accident were to happen, the kit hadn't been lolered and it was deemed that the accident could have maybe been prevented if the gear was inspected then it wouldn't look good. Also as others have said the insurance may not then pay out, if you suffered life changing injuries then you want to know that you would be looked after. If you mark and record all of your gear and it is easy to asses then I would have thought that £50 per kit would be fairer.

 

On the flip side to this when I did my loler ticket there was a guy in the course who didn't know what a grcs was and more scarily hadn't used any more rigging equipment than a single rope and krab. Obviously it is down to the individual/company to engage the services of a suitable loler inspector who understand ARB kit or it could be argued that you are throwing your money away.

 

 

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[Mick Dempsey]

The insurance claim thing intrigues me.

 

Surely for something to go wrong i.e. A roof damaged by a branch, something had to fail or someone had to have made an error not following best practice. In either case surely they can't refuse to pay as that's what they're there for.

 

Over 20 years I've had a couple of claims, the insurance company never asked about loler.

[stihlmadasever]

The insurance claim thing intrigues me.

 

Surely for something to go wrong i.e. A roof damaged by a branch, something had to fail or someone had to have made an error not following best practice. In either case surely they can't refuse to pay as that's what they're there for.

 

Over 20 years I've had a couple of claims, the insurance company never asked about loler.

 

I would think if its an accident due to failure of equipment then insurers would deem proof of loler records a must,before payout.

But then its just guess work really-who knows what insurers would deem equipment failure

[R Mac]

Lots of good answers here and good to see things from a different perspective.

 

I understand that LOLER isn't specific to the arb industry, really my point was that we're considered competent for 6 months and then someone else is considered more competent and on what basis?

 

They've attended a 3 day course which as far as the actual checking goes is just the same as we've already been taught on CS38/39, it isn't as if they need to apply any specialist equipment to see the things that the rest of us can't, clearly for all their supposed competence some of them aren't even familiar with the equipment we use which is hardly reassuring.

 

I've read on here about LOLER inspectors failing equipment simply due to a lack of knowledge regarding said equipment, I'd suggest that if you come across a LOLER inspector who isn't familiar with a certified item of equipment in your posession and attempts to fail it on the basis that he's unfamiliar with it that you report him to HSE as he's potentially in breach of the very regulations he's trying to implement. See excerpt below from the HSE information Sheet

 

LOLER, How the regulations apply to arboriculture

 

LOLER requires lifting equipment to be thoroughly

examined. This means a detailed examination by a

competent person who has appropriate practical and

theoretical knowledge and experience to enable them

to detect defects or weaknesses in the equipment

being examined and assess their importance in relation

to the safety and continued use of the lifting equipment.

 

No doubt some will say that with the amount of new products coming onto the market that it's unreasonable to expect someone to be up to speed with it all, I'd say if you can't take the heat, if I'm to be expected to pay to have someone else check once every 6 months something that I'm required to check every time I use it they damn well better know more about it than I do.

 

Regarding impartiality, can you take the LOLER course and assuming you pass then LOLER your own equipment?

[Marc Lewis]

Out of interest, has anyone ever known or heard of a climbers line snapping or a harness falling apart whilst in use??

[stihlmadasever]

Would lolering your own equipment not be a conflict of interests?

[R Mac]

Think of younger more inexperienced climbers who don't have the knowledge and experience that you have, the fact that a 'competent person' goes over their kit every 6 months must be a good thing.

 

The thing is that it isn't as clear cut as having an experienced LOLER inspector and an inexperienced user, it can just as easily be the exact opposite. Take a 3 day course, pass the assessment and bingo you're considered competent.

[stihlmadasever]

Out of interest, has anyone ever known or heard of a climbers line snapping or a harness falling apart whilst in use??

 

Climber in the states died a few months back,the bridge on his harness gave out while he was ascending.

It was reported his "saddle"was ten years old.

[R Mac]

Would lolering your own equipment not be a conflict of interests?

 

Maybe, maybe not, you'r going to be the one at risk after all, but aye as far as HSE is concerned I would have though it would be a conflict of interests but who knows

[JaySmith]

Lots of good answers here and good to see things from a different perspective.

 

I understand that LOLER isn't specific to the arb industry, really my point was that we're considered competent for 6 months and then someone else is considered more competent and on what basis?

 

They've attended a 3 day course which as far as the actual checking goes is just the same as we've already been taught on CS38/39, it isn't as if they need to apply any specialist equipment to see the things that the rest of us can't, clearly for all their supposed competence some of them aren't even familiar with the equipment we use which is hardly reassuring.

 

I've read on here about LOLER inspectors failing equipment simply due to a lack of knowledge regarding said equipment, I'd suggest that if you come across a LOLER inspector who isn't familiar with a certified item of equipment in your posession and attempts to fail it on the basis that he's unfamiliar with it that you report him to HSE as he's potentially in breach of the very regulations he's trying to implement. See excerpt below from the HSE information Sheet

 

LOLER, How the regulations apply to arboriculture

 

LOLER requires lifting equipment to be thoroughly

examined. This means a detailed examination by a

competent person who has appropriate practical and

theoretical knowledge and experience to enable them

to detect defects or weaknesses in the equipment

being examined and assess their importance in relation

to the safety and continued use of the lifting equipment.

 

No doubt some will say that with the amount of new products coming onto the market that it's unreasonable to expect someone to be up to speed with it all, I'd say if you can't take the heat, if I'm to be expected to pay to have someone else check once every 6 months something that I'm required to check every time I use it they damn well better know more about it than I do.

 

Regarding impartiality, can you take the LOLER course and assuming you pass then LOLER your own equipment?

 

 

I agree with some of what you say. Yes if the inspector can't/doesn't recognise the gear then no they shouldn't be inspecting it. As more and more gear comes into the market it is harder to keep up, however if you are charging for a service you need to keep up. When new gear is released I download the pdf from the manufacturers website to keep up to date. I also sign up for the updates from the manufacturers with regards to recalls etc.

 

The actual loler course is more in depth than than what is taught at 38/39 for sure. You have to be competent in many areas before passing, such as inspecting kit/ working out swl's etc. One of the main things I would say is important is to find a loler inspector that is an arb, I would only inspect arb equipment and wouldn't even get involved in other sectors/industries as I think you need to thoroughly understand the equipment you are looking at.

 

 

 

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