Pick-up speed limits

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I have asked a policman I know that works in the fast responce APNR unit how this would be delt with on the road side. His initial responce was that if its listed as under 2040kg on the system or a google finds it listed as such they would treat it as a car. He is going to look into it more for me. As he was not 100% on it I guess it does not happen often. He works a large city / Mway network.

 

This is the full regs re "dual purpose"

 

 

 

 

So some crew cabs are Dual purpose IF they comply with part two in its entirety.

 

The definition of unladen weight is harder.

 

Does it include fuel, oils, driver ect ect?

 

Vehicle makers all use a different method to show curb weight so CW cant be used.

 

This is what the gov site says in one place

 

 

 

but on another gov site is says designed weight so extras dont count. Yet the link below says they do count (and below is the law).

 

 

 

 

The last quote is the actual law. Everything else is interpretation. Only a court can decide what a law actually means.

 

So if stopped do not accept a ticket, caution or NIP unless they take you to a weigh bridge, make you unload the vehicle, drain ALL water based fluids (coolant, screen wash ect) & fuels, remove all loose items / tools ect & then you are over 2040kg, ensuring they use the 5% tolerance.

 

 

All quotes from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/3/made

 

Or drive slower lol

 

Re van speed limits, more & more are now getting tickets as more advanced speed cameras are coming into use.

 

Awesome!

 

You're a terrier for detail Sir!!

[openspaceman]

If the Hilux has an unladen weight not exceeding 2040kg and has full-time or part-time all-wheel-drive, then it is a Dual Purpose vehcile and is subject to normal car spped limits.

 

Check the unladen weight figure though, since trucks and 4x4s have been getting heavier of late.

 

A quick Google suggests that the heaviest 2016 Hilux 4x4 double cab has a kerb weight of 2080kg. Since the kerb weight usually includes a driver (70kg usually) and a full tank of fuel, then the unladen weight must be under 2040kg, thus meaning that it is still a DPV. Be careful bolting too many goodies on though, since if they are bolted on they may be considered to increase the unladen weight (since they are not readily removable).

 

I needed to get a weight ticket to prove my 110 was under 2040 kg and it was but only just.

 

It was to prove it was subject to a class 4 MOT rather than class 7 as IIRC the gross was 3050kg. MOT tester wouldn't accept it so rather than take it elsewhere therafter I had to pay for the class 7.

 

I think you nailed it for the speed limits but since last year they went up from 40 to 50 for commercials on single carriageways so it only affects you by 10mph on these and dual carriageways.

[Stoatally]

The guidance given to MOT testers is that, when dealing with things like pick ups and the ULW they should always assume that it is under. 110 should have easily fallen into class 4 unless heavily modified.

[Treewolf]

... I think you nailed it for the speed limits but since last year they went up from 40 to 50 for commercials on single carriageways so it only affects you by 10mph on these and dual carriageways.

 

Remember that change only affected heavy goods vehicles, not light goods vehicles (and didn't apply to Scotland).

 

Currently national max speed limits for single carriageways, dual carriageways, and motorways are as follows:

 

- Cars and DPVs: 60/70/70 mph

- Light goods: 50/60/70 mph

- Heavy goods 50/60/60 mph

 

A vehicle which is a DPV should always be tested as Class 4 for the MOT, not Class 7. When I asked my MOT tester why he had insisted on testing it as Class 7 despite it being a DPV, his response was "what's a dual purpose vehicle?" !! A short educational experience then followed, and he only charged me for a Class 4!

 

Although generally it makes little difference, it is worth remembering that a Dual Purpose Vehicle is not legally a Goods Vehicle. They are separate and distinct things defined in the C&U regs. A DPV will generally now be Type Approved as N1, and taxed as N1, as will light goods vehicles, but the TA class and Tax class have no bearing on the actual vehicle type classification and speed limits.

 

(For example, a 1949 Land-Rover is legally just as much a Dual Purpose Vehicle as a 2015 Defender, but its tax class will be Historic Vehicle. Until recently the predominent tax class was "Private/Light Goods", which included cars, DPVs, and goods vehicles under 3.5 tons GVW.)

 

There's nothing like cutting red tape, and this is nothing like cutting red tape!

[Stoatally]

Hence the desire to move to a simpler classification system as in Europe M1 and N1 etc. Would he interesting to see if they manage the change.

 

DPV has always been raised as an issue with MOT testers on initial training or refresher courses. No idea what will happen now the training is turning it into more of an online CPD set up

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Just received from Toyota:

 

Good afternoon Kevin

 

Apologies for not getting back to you earlier. Toyota technical support have just come back to me regarding the speed limits. Pickups come under duel purpose / LCV.

Speed limits for the Invincible would be

 

Built-up areas 30 (48)mph (km/h)

Single carriageways 50 (80)mph (km/h)

Dual carriageways 60 (96)mph (km/h)

Motorways 70 (112)mph (km/h)

 

I’ve enclosed the revised quote.

 

Kind regards

 

Jon

 

I don't think he's answered the question which was:

 

One question that has arisen, kerb weight and potential implications for speed limits - I understand that a ‘dual purpose vehicle’ such as a PU truck is classified as dual purpose, and subject to normal domestic car speed limits so long as the kerb weight is <2040kg. I note from the tech spec for the Hilux that kerb weight is listed as 1975-2165kg.

 

Can you confirm what the kerb weight is for the double cab PU and is it restricted to commercial speed limits?

 

Unless this whole thing is getting too much for me, would it not be the case that it is EITHER a dual purpose vehicle OR a light commercial vehicle? If DPV it's subject to normal car speed limits, if LCV it is subject to lower than normal car speeds?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Let's see what he comes back with....

 

Dear Jon,

 

thank you for seeking that additional detail regarding vehicle classification / applicable speed limits.

 

I’m not sure the detail provided by tech support actually answers the question if I am understanding the circumstances properly.

 

To be classified as a DPV the vehicles unladen weight must be less than 2040kg (along with some other qualifying criteria.)

 

What is the stated unladen weight of the Invincible double cab?

 

It cannot be both DPV and LCV, it has to be one or the other and the speed limits that have been provided seem to indicate that it is LCV rather than DPV. This has implications for speed limits and MoT classification so I need to be clear on this.

[Gary Prentice]

If a traffic officer has to google the answer, what chance have we got attempting to stay legal? FFS......

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

If a traffic officer has to google the answer, what chance have we got attempting to stay legal? FFS......

 

 

It's certainly that issue Gary, wanting to know & comply with the appropriate law / regs (or, knowingly choose to accept the risk associated with, for example, exceeding the lawful speeds.)

 

But what is also frustrating me is that the sales rep is either unaware of the regs relating to the vehicles he is touting, or he is intentionally and knowingly avoiding my fairly simple and binary question - is it a DPV or not?

 

If he knows the answer and is intentionally being vague, then the implication of different than expected MoT class and restricted speed is a bloody shabby practice with financial implications.

 

Grrrrrr!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Just had a call:

 

In essence, the garage (main dealer Exeter) MoT all past and current Hilux as Class 4 by entering the chassis number and following the online process.

 

There is no answer, just yet, as to unladen weight of the 2016 crew cab. I offered to put it on a weigh bridge!!

 

My question then was, well, if it's being MoT'd as class 4, but it's not a DPV because it exceeds 2040kg, does that mean it's MoT'd in the wrong class and should be class 7 LCV and thereby leaving the driver / owner open to problems with DVSA/VOSA/Plod for not having a valid MoT cert?

 

Bit of a stunned silence.....

 

I don't think I mind if it does turn out to be too heavy for DPV and is subject to lower speed limits, I don't even think there's a massive difference in cost between class 4 & class 7 MoT (i may be wrong), I just want a straight answer one way or the other - surely it's not too much to ask? This is giving me a headache!