Making the news today....

[Youngstu]

2 hours ago, Johnsond said:

Grow up man. Safe ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️Safe from what ???  fed ??? I don’t see any evidence of hunger or people starving due to the virus and being rescued by frontline Asda heroes. Looked after ?? Pure rubbish, yes NHS staff have done an outstanding job as they always do under any circumstances but really to use the phrases you have ?‍♂️?‍♂️ What do you thinks being going on in reality ???. You have swallowed the propaganda big time. 

Can you explain the purpose of this "propaganda" that you talk of and explain who is really generating it?

Did the government and media want to cause a recession, or to cause huge numbers of job losses, or a mental health crisis, or to highlight the failings of the NHS in the state it's been left in, or to deprive children of education and social opportunities, or to increase distrust in the ruling government, or potentially crash the housing market or to get the population calling for improvements in the NHS funding or calling for a universal income.

I'm just curious what  has caused you to come to this conclusion when there have probably been more than 60000 excess deaths here and this virus is continuing to cause increasing problems around the world, particularly in countries that failed to increase anti transmission precautions early on. 

 

[woodwizzard]

Coronavirus: How They Deliberately Terrified Us

WWW.VERNONCOLEMAN.COM

---

vernon coleman coronavirus

 

[Johnsond]

18 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

Can you explain the purpose of this "propaganda" that you talk of and explain who is really generating it?

Did the government and media want to cause a recession, or to cause huge numbers of job losses, or a mental health crisis, or to highlight the failings of the NHS in the state it's been left in, or to deprive children of education and social opportunities, or to increase distrust in the ruling government, or potentially crash the housing market or to get the population calling for improvements in the NHS funding or calling for a universal income.

I'm just curious what  has caused you to come to this conclusion when there have probably been more than 60000 excess deaths here and this virus is continuing to cause increasing problems around the world, particularly in countries that failed to increase anti transmission precautions early on. 

 

You continue to sit at home chanting the virus is gonna get me mantra then and believe all the hype. Do you really think people in power don’t lie ??? You ain’t learnt much over the years have you. Try looking at the WMD bollocks by that bastion of the working classes T Blair ?. Death from all forms of disease and virus is a part of human existence. We in the west  and in developed countries have become soft and conditioned to believing drugs and modern medicine can cure all. Have you seen the latest statistics as to the deaths and the number whom did not have underlying health issues !!. It’s ironic to see the outcry over this when millions perish all over the third  world every year due to preventable diseases with barely a murmur.  

[Youngstu]

10 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

You continue to sit at home chanting the virus is gonna get me mantra then and believe all the hype. Do you really think people in power don’t lie ??? You ain’t learnt much over the years have you. Try looking at the WMD bollocks by that bastion of the working classes T Blair ?. Death from all forms of disease and virus is a part of human existence. We in the west  and in developed countries have become soft and conditioned to believing drugs and modern medicine can cure all. Have you seen the latest statistics as to the deaths and the number whom did not have underlying health issues !!. It’s ironic to see the outcry over this when millions perish all over the third  world every year due to preventable diseases with barely a murmur.  

I'm not sitting at home expecting the virus to get me, but as with most people (yourself included it seems) am continuing to take reasonable precautions to try and avoid getting infecting or infecting others. I wouldn't trust the current or previous government one bit and I most certainly haven't voted for them or at any point felt that they have the best interest of the majority of the country at heart in any way at all. 

 

How exactly is it "soft and conditioned" to put some faith in the medical discoveries and systems that have (alongside other aspects of development) allowed the population to reach an unsustainable level? By that statement I take it that you've been out and about trying your best to catch Covid just to prove that you're tough enough to deal with this "flu" and don't bother to have yourself or your family vaccinated against any other diseases that may or may not cause significant harm.

It's a very valid point about the fuss being made about this when so many around the world die of preventable diseases and that's exactly the reason why it has scared people, because anyone , rich or poor could be susceptible to it (but you're much more at risk if you have underlying health issues or are from specific ethnic groups). 

So can we try again :

Can you explain the purpose of this "propaganda" that you talk of and explain who is really generating it? 

Did the government and media want to cause a recession, or to cause huge numbers of job losses, or a mental health crisis, or to highlight the failings of the NHS in the state it's been left in, or to deprive children of education and social opportunities, or to increase distrust in the ruling government, or potentially crash the housing market or to get the population calling for improvements in the NHS funding or calling for a universal income.

 

[Johnsond]

33 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

I'm not sitting at home expecting the virus to get me, but as with most people (yourself included it seems) am continuing to take reasonable precautions to try and avoid getting infecting or infecting others. I wouldn't trust the current or previous government one bit and I most certainly haven't voted for them or at any point felt that they have the best interest of the majority of the country at heart in any way at all. 

 

How exactly is it "soft and conditioned" to put some faith in the medical discoveries and systems that have (alongside other aspects of development) allowed the population to reach an unsustainable level? By that statement I take it that you've been out and about trying your best to catch Covid just to prove that you're tough enough to deal with this "flu" and don't bother to have yourself or your family vaccinated against any other diseases that may or may not cause significant harm.

It's a very valid point about the fuss being made about this when so many around the world die of preventable diseases and that's exactly the reason why it has scared people, because anyone , rich or poor could be susceptible to it (but you're much more at risk if you have underlying health issues or are from specific ethnic groups). 

So can we try again :

Can you explain the purpose of this "propaganda" that you talk of and explain who is really generating it? 

Did the government and media want to cause a recession, or to cause huge numbers of job losses, or a mental health crisis, or to highlight the failings of the NHS in the state it's been left in, or to deprive children of education and social opportunities, or to increase distrust in the ruling government, or potentially crash the housing market or to get the population calling for improvements in the NHS funding or calling for a universal income.

 

It seems you are very wrong I’m afraid. And the I take it you have been out and about statement well I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves. No I’ve made no changes to my day to day routines during this farce other than those imposed upon me,  you do realise I’m not alone in this, ie kept working if possible, visited families etc etc and amazingly have yet to succumb to this virus. I live in a fairly remote location as it is and choose to avoid towns/cities if possible anyway. Only thing that changed for me is my means of providing for my family was denied due to the ludicrous lock down situation being imposed upon the country and the fact that my kids have been denied schooling other than that what myself and the mrs have provided. The propaganda and lies being pumped out daily as to the severity and risk associated with this virus are everywhere right in front of you just open your eyes and take a look. Try looking at some of the informed alternative reasoning from many sources as to the overestimate and massive exaggeration being used on many occasions to justify measures. Did the NHS fail ??? No it did not, at no point did it ever come remotely close to being overwhelmed. 
The point about the developed world expecting a cure or a medicine for everything is confirmed by your response in many respects. We have widely differing opinions you obviously believe the lockdown is worth it for whatever reason. I believe it’s a total over reaction based upon the data and statistics I have read and the abject failure of the mathematical model predictions. 
just curious but do you remember the mad cow debacle and certain eminent scientists involvement in that ???. 
Did  you read the article that Woodwizard put the link up for??. Ever wondered why so much money is being offered out to help people ??? The amount of people for whom this debt will become a ball and chain is incalculable. A lot of those being the free minded self employed types whom normally stand on their own two feet. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Johnsond

[Mark J]

10 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

It seems you are very wrong I’m afraid. And the I take it you have been out and about statement well I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves. No I’ve made no changes to my day to day routines during this farce other than those imposed upon me,  you do realise I’m not alone in this, ie kept working if possible, visited families etc etc and amazingly have yet to succumb to this virus. I live in a fairly remote location as it is and choose to avoid towns/cities if possible anyway. Only thing that changed for me is my means of providing for my family was denied due to the ludicrous lock down situation being imposed upon the country and the fact that my kids have been denied schooling other than that what myself and the mrs have provided. The propaganda and lies being pumped out daily as to the severity and risk associated with this virus are everywhere right in front of you just open your eyes and take a look. Try looking at some of the informed alternative reasoning from many sources as to the overestimate and massive exaggeration being used on many occasions to justify measures. Did the NHS fail ??? No it did not, at no point did it ever come remotely close to being overwhelmed. 
The point about the developed world expecting a cure or a medicine for everything is confirmed by your response in many respects. We have widely differing opinions you obviously believe the lockdown is worth it for whatever reason. I believe it’s a total over reaction based upon the data and statistics I have read and the abject failure of the mathematical model predictions. 
just curious but do you remember the mad cow debacle and certain eminent scientists involvement in that ???. 

Canny irresponsible to have visited families if you didn't need to before rules were relaxed. If you or loved ones mental or physical health was in peril then that would be a fair reason in my book. People made massive sacrifices.

It must be rubbish watching your business wash away when England is 'back to work'. I really do undertand your frustration.
I think they're playing with lives though. I know that most people, it seems, are going to be able to survive it. It just makes sense to contol it for the sake of the vulnerable.

Personally I'd prefer Sturgeon in charge, but I have a thing for small ginger women.

If they'd locked down hard at the start of all this we'd be free(er) by now. Instead we've got the perpetual threat of mass lockdowns.
 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Mark J

[Johnsond]

1 minute ago, Mark J said:

Canny irresponsible to have visited families if you didn't need to before rules were relaxed. If you or loved one's mental or physical health was in peril then that would be a fair reason in my book. People made massive sacrifices.

It must be rubbish watching your business wash away when England is 'back to work'. I really do undertand your frustration.
I think they're playing with lives though. I know that most people are going to be able to survive it. It just makes sense to contol it for the sake of the vulnerable.

Personally I'd prefer Sturgeon in charge, but I have a thing for small ginger women.

If they'd locked down hard at the start of all this we'd be free(er) by now. Instead we've got the perpetual threat of mass lockdowns.
 

Rules Mark made by whom on what basis ???. Come on man I at least had you as a bit more broad minded than that.  You can have that evil little ginger control freak all day long. 

[Youngstu]

10 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

It seems you are very wrong I’m afraid. And the I take it you have been out and about statement well I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves. No I’ve made no changes to my day to day routines during this farce other than those imposed upon me,  you do realise I’m not alone in this, ie kept working if possible, visited families etc etc and amazingly have yet to succumb to this virus. I live in a fairly remote location as it is and choose to avoid towns/cities if possible anyway. Only thing that changed for me is my means of providing for my family was denied due to the ludicrous lock down situation being imposed upon the country and the fact that my kids have been denied schooling other than that what myself and the mrs have provided. The propaganda and lies being pumped out daily as to the severity and risk associated with this virus are everywhere right in front of you just open your eyes and take a look. Try looking at some of the informed alternative reasoning from many sources as to the overestimate and massive exaggeration being used on many occasions to justify measures. Did the NHS fail ??? No it did not, at no point did it ever come remotely close to being overwhelmed. 
The point about the developed world expecting a cure or a medicine for everything is confirmed by your response in many respects. We have widely differing opinions you obviously believe the lockdown is worth it for whatever reason. I believe it’s a total over reaction based upon the data and statistics I have read and the abject failure of the mathematical model predictions. 
just curious but do you remember the mad cow debacle and certain eminent scientists involvement in that ???. 

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

[Johnsond]

2 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

Ok for starters do some research on the CJD models predicted years ago then follow that up by seeing if you can find a name in the current situation that matches ?. The public have sadly responded and obeyed better than could ever have been imagined. The initial part of your response sums it up ie they don’t have to ever be wrong or right in this debacle as they can swing the facts either way. As for the nightingale cash pits do you actually realise what the take up of beds was ??? . 

[Johnsond]

2 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

Ok for starters do some research on the CJD models predicted years ago then follow that up by seeing if you can find a name in the current situation that matches ?. The public have sadly responded and obeyed better than could ever have been imagined. The initial part of your response sums it up ie they don’t have to ever be wrong or right in this debacle as they can swing the facts either way. As for the nightingale cash pits do you actually realise what the take up of beds was ??? .