Making the news today....

[Mark J]

10 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

It seems you are very wrong I’m afraid. And the I take it you have been out and about statement well I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves. No I’ve made no changes to my day to day routines during this farce other than those imposed upon me,  you do realise I’m not alone in this, ie kept working if possible, visited families etc etc and amazingly have yet to succumb to this virus. I live in a fairly remote location as it is and choose to avoid towns/cities if possible anyway. Only thing that changed for me is my means of providing for my family was denied due to the ludicrous lock down situation being imposed upon the country and the fact that my kids have been denied schooling other than that what myself and the mrs have provided. The propaganda and lies being pumped out daily as to the severity and risk associated with this virus are everywhere right in front of you just open your eyes and take a look. Try looking at some of the informed alternative reasoning from many sources as to the overestimate and massive exaggeration being used on many occasions to justify measures. Did the NHS fail ??? No it did not, at no point did it ever come remotely close to being overwhelmed. 
The point about the developed world expecting a cure or a medicine for everything is confirmed by your response in many respects. We have widely differing opinions you obviously believe the lockdown is worth it for whatever reason. I believe it’s a total over reaction based upon the data and statistics I have read and the abject failure of the mathematical model predictions. 
just curious but do you remember the mad cow debacle and certain eminent scientists involvement in that ???. 

Canny irresponsible to have visited families if you didn't need to before rules were relaxed. If you or loved ones mental or physical health was in peril then that would be a fair reason in my book. People made massive sacrifices.

It must be rubbish watching your business wash away when England is 'back to work'. I really do undertand your frustration.
I think they're playing with lives though. I know that most people, it seems, are going to be able to survive it. It just makes sense to contol it for the sake of the vulnerable.

Personally I'd prefer Sturgeon in charge, but I have a thing for small ginger women.

If they'd locked down hard at the start of all this we'd be free(er) by now. Instead we've got the perpetual threat of mass lockdowns.
 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Mark J

[Johnsond]

1 minute ago, Mark J said:

Canny irresponsible to have visited families if you didn't need to before rules were relaxed. If you or loved one's mental or physical health was in peril then that would be a fair reason in my book. People made massive sacrifices.

It must be rubbish watching your business wash away when England is 'back to work'. I really do undertand your frustration.
I think they're playing with lives though. I know that most people are going to be able to survive it. It just makes sense to contol it for the sake of the vulnerable.

Personally I'd prefer Sturgeon in charge, but I have a thing for small ginger women.

If they'd locked down hard at the start of all this we'd be free(er) by now. Instead we've got the perpetual threat of mass lockdowns.
 

Rules Mark made by whom on what basis ???. Come on man I at least had you as a bit more broad minded than that.  You can have that evil little ginger control freak all day long. 

[Youngstu]

10 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

It seems you are very wrong I’m afraid. And the I take it you have been out and about statement well I’ll treat that with the contempt it deserves. No I’ve made no changes to my day to day routines during this farce other than those imposed upon me,  you do realise I’m not alone in this, ie kept working if possible, visited families etc etc and amazingly have yet to succumb to this virus. I live in a fairly remote location as it is and choose to avoid towns/cities if possible anyway. Only thing that changed for me is my means of providing for my family was denied due to the ludicrous lock down situation being imposed upon the country and the fact that my kids have been denied schooling other than that what myself and the mrs have provided. The propaganda and lies being pumped out daily as to the severity and risk associated with this virus are everywhere right in front of you just open your eyes and take a look. Try looking at some of the informed alternative reasoning from many sources as to the overestimate and massive exaggeration being used on many occasions to justify measures. Did the NHS fail ??? No it did not, at no point did it ever come remotely close to being overwhelmed. 
The point about the developed world expecting a cure or a medicine for everything is confirmed by your response in many respects. We have widely differing opinions you obviously believe the lockdown is worth it for whatever reason. I believe it’s a total over reaction based upon the data and statistics I have read and the abject failure of the mathematical model predictions. 
just curious but do you remember the mad cow debacle and certain eminent scientists involvement in that ???. 

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

[Johnsond]

2 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

Ok for starters do some research on the CJD models predicted years ago then follow that up by seeing if you can find a name in the current situation that matches ?. The public have sadly responded and obeyed better than could ever have been imagined. The initial part of your response sums it up ie they don’t have to ever be wrong or right in this debacle as they can swing the facts either way. As for the nightingale cash pits do you actually realise what the take up of beds was ??? . 

[Johnsond]

2 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

Ok for starters do some research on the CJD models predicted years ago then follow that up by seeing if you can find a name in the current situation that matches ?. The public have sadly responded and obeyed better than could ever have been imagined. The initial part of your response sums it up ie they don’t have to ever be wrong or right in this debacle as they can swing the facts either way. As for the nightingale cash pits do you actually realise what the take up of beds was ??? . 

[Youngstu]

20 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

The public have sadly responded and obeyed better than could ever have been imagined. The initial part of your response sums it up ie they don’t have to ever be wrong or right in this debacle as they can swing the facts either way. As for the nightingale cash pits do you actually realise what the take up of beds was ??? . 

So is it a bad thing that the public responded and obeyed in this instance as without that it could've been worse? We still appear to have been the worst in Europe despite having a head start on preparations with Italy, France and Spain ahead of us, but we maybe should've responded faster. What should they have done? Yes the Nightingale Hospitals didn't get much if any use, but what if it had been worse and we didn't have the additional space?

A bit like life really, would you rather regret doing something that seemed like the right thing at the time, or regret not bothering trying when you thought it might be a good idea. 

In March when this all started over here the Virus had only been in existence/detected for 3 months, what had happened in China and the far East wasn't entirely clear and it appeared that there was a massive problem in Italy, then Spain and France. Should they just have ignored it and told us not to worry. 

I don't think the Government have done a good job in any way, but it seems like for completely different reasons from you. What do you think they should have done between March and now?

[Johnsond]

2 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

So is it a bad thing that the public responded and obeyed in this instance as without that it could've been worse? We still appear to have been the worst in Europe despite having a head start on preparations with Italy, France and Spain ahead of us, but we maybe should've responded faster. What should they have done? Yes the Nightingale Hospitals didn't get much if any use, but what if it had been worse and we didn't have the additional space?

A bit like life really, would you rather regret doing something that seemed like the right thing at the time, or regret not bothering trying when you thought it might be a good idea. 

In March when this all started over here the Virus had only been in existence/detected for 3 months, what had happened in China and the far East wasn't entirely clear and it appeared that there was a massive problem in Italy, then Spain and France. Should they just have ignored it and told us not to worry. 

I don't think the Government have done a good job in any way, but it seems like for completely different reasons from you. What do you think they should have done between March and now?

Do you realise how much you rely on should of could of if this and if that etc etc. Go do the research on the subject matter I mentioned you may be surprised. 
Not gonna get dragged into details but briefly in a nutshell isolate/protect  the potentially vulnerable Or those with underlying health issues if they wanted it that is (A very important point for me) and for the rest let people get in with life in general. Way way to much state interference in minute detail for my liking. 

[eggsarascal]

2 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Similar situation here too, it's not been possible to work for me, don't live so rural so have seen people out and about but saw family today for the first time since March as we wouldn't have wanted to put them at risk. I don't personally feel that the lockdown was ludicrous and had it been imposed sooner maybe we'd have been out of it much sooner too, but hey ho at least some got to Cheltenham, footie etc before being shut at home. Do we really know the severity and long term effects of those that have been infected? do we really know what's going to happen in the next year? The time is probably time to open up but is it the right way to do it? Why wasn't the NHS overwhelmed like Italy's was, and if we hadn't locked down when we did maybe it would have been (with or without the big nightingale emergency hospitals).

The mathematical models may well have got it wrong, but that's what they are, models and they can very massively by what gets put into them and nobody really knew that much about the disease,  how the public would respond or how easily it would have transmitted. Should we expect a cure or medicine for new diseases? we have the technology and scientific expertise so why shouldn't we. 

And yes I do remember the mad cow disease problems but as I was overseas for much of it and probably not particularly interested in it at the time I don't have any recollections of the specifics of the involvements of scientists in the debacle. But if that's evidence of reasons not to trust scientists, I'd rather trust the scientists to learn from their mistakes than politicians and armchair experts.

Can you not see where this falls down? You've been to see relatives today that you haven't seen since March, yet the "R" rate is about the same if not higher in some parts of the country.

[Johnsond]

10 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

So is it a bad thing that the public responded and obeyed in this instance as without that it could've been worse? We still appear to have been the worst in Europe despite having a head start on preparations with Italy, France and Spain ahead of us, but we maybe should've responded faster. What should they have done? Yes the Nightingale Hospitals didn't get much if any use, but what if it had been worse and we didn't have the additional space?

A bit like life really, would you rather regret doing something that seemed like the right thing at the time, or regret not bothering trying when you thought it might be a good idea. 

In March when this all started over here the Virus had only been in existence/detected for 3 months, what had happened in China and the far East wasn't entirely clear and it appeared that there was a massive problem in Italy, then Spain and France. Should they just have ignored it and told us not to worry. 

I don't think the Government have done a good job in any way, but it seems like for completely different reasons from you. What do you think they should have done between March and now?

Public obedience without question is indeed a bad thing. I think you will find even recent history is full of examples of this. 

[Youngstu]

14 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Can you not see where this falls down? You've been to see relatives today that you haven't seen since March, yet the "R" rate is about the same if not higher in some parts of the country.

The older ( more vulnerable?) Relatives chose to come and visit us and regarding the R rate it is a factor of the number of people infected so the R rate can be high with low numbers. 

But I agree with you in that respect as it doesn't really seem that there was a particular point at which they decided to reduce restrictions, the scientists don't seem to have agreed with them.