Making the news today....

[Mark J]

9 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

It is worth remembering that the billionaires you are talking about consist mainly of pension funds.  In other words the future prosperity of you and I (unless you have no pension of course).

I have pension(s) in place. A pension is no good if you can't afford anything which you have dilligently saved for, because the cost of things is so high. 

I'm lucky as I get paid to do my hobby, so I'll always be happy, but things aren't looking too good for many. 

[Squaredy]

25 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

but it isn't the highest tax regime since WW2, if you read that Wiki history of taxation Mark J posted above it says the basic rate was up around 33% for a while. 

 

The government of Margaret Thatcher, who favoured taxation on consumption, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s in favour of indirect taxation.^[19] In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60% and the basic rate from 33% to 30%.^[20] The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets – to 29% in the 1986 budget, 27% in 1987 and to 25% in 1988; The top rate of income tax was cut to 40%.^[21] The investment income surcharge was abolished in 1985.

Under the government of John Major the basic rate was reduced in stages to 23% by 1997.

21st century

Under Labour chancellor Gordon Brown, the basic rate of income tax was further reduced in stages to 20% by 2007. As the basic rate stood at 35% in 1976, it has been reduced by 43% since then. However, this reduction has been largely offset by increases in other regressive taxes such as National Insurance contributions and Value Added Tax (VAT).

And it is worth remembering that when people talk about austerity, the amount of money the public sector takes as tax and spends is at record highs - not just due to the Labour government.  Despite accusations of austerity public sector spending went through the roof under the Conservatives.

 

Many services have been cut and are struggling, but this is not due to tax cuts or frugality.  If only it were then the solution would be easy.  Our public sector is better funded than it ever has been, but outcomes are probably worse than they ever have been at least since WW2.  The actual solution is to somehow make the public sector efficient and productive.  

[Mesterh]

3 hours ago, Capetown said:

Will they be able to do it for less than £200 million though?

I don't know. Why what's with the £200 million figure?

[tree-fancier123]

43 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

And it is worth remembering that when people talk about austerity, the amount of money the public sector takes as tax and spends is at record highs - not just due to the Labour government.  Despite accusations of austerity public sector spending went through the roof under the Conservatives.

 

Many services have been cut and are struggling, but this is not due to tax cuts or frugality.  If only it were then the solution would be easy.  Our public sector is better funded than it ever has been, but outcomes are probably worse than they ever have been at least since WW2.  The actual solution is to somehow make the public sector efficient and productive.  

I don't see the problems with taxation that you do - many of my customers are quite well off with big gardens, and not aristocrats, just people who worked hard and made good decisions when they were young. Taxation hasn't stopped them building wealth. On this forum I could mention a dozen or more guys who have build successful tree firms that are still trading, despite the tax burdens of recent decades.

Take Beechwood and Aspen, both successful firms that are still trading. You could argue those business owners, as examples would be even wealthier if VAT was only 10% and Ltd tax only 10%, but my point is people are living a good standard of living in the here and now. I'm nowhere near as successful as the two I mentioned, a mere one man band, but I have savings (ISA) and a SIPP, my own modest home nearly all paid for and hopefully a few years left to increase my wealth before my body is degraded to the point manual work is not possible.

Today's environment is good I'd say - I  don't care about VAT or other tax, if I want more mony I just work more days, or sometimes get away with increasing prices. There is no poverty for the hard working that I can see. My tax hasn't all been sqaundered - I've seen a retired guy with a massive lump from leukemia now in remission, cancer treatments are better than 20 years ago. Someone has to pay. People can go to Uni, or become florists, bin men, chefs - all is right in the world

 

[Squaredy]

16 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

I don't see the problems with taxation that you do - many of my customers are quite well off with big gardens, and not aristocrats, just people who worked hard and made good decisions when they were young. Taxation hasn't stopped them building wealth. On this forum I could mention a dozen or more guys who have build successful tree firms that are still trading, despite the tax burdens of recent decades.

Take Beechwood and Aspen, both successful firms that are still trading. You could argue those business owners, as examples would be even wealthier if VAT was only 10% and Ltd tax only 10%, but my point is people are living a good standard of living in the here and now. I'm nowhere near as successful as the two I mentioned, a mere one man band, but I have savings (ISA) and a SIPP, my own modest home nearly all paid for and hopefully a few years left to increase my wealth before my body is degraded to the point manual work is not possible.

Today's environment is good I'd say - I  don't care about VAT or other tax, if I want more mony I just work more days, or sometimes get away with increasing prices. There is no poverty for the hard working that I can see. My tax hasn't all been sqaundered - I've seen a retired guy with a massive lump from leukemia now in remission, cancer treatments are better than 20 years ago. Someone has to pay. People can go to Uni, or become florists, bin men, chefs - all is right in the world

 

I agree I do not see much poverty.  Except perhaps when it comes to buying a house.  I feel for my kids when they want to buy their first house.  

 

My main gripe is that the government have more money than ever, yet public services are generally dire.  Of course, bear in mind I have lived in a Labour area for 26 years.  Some things like education are certainly better where Labour have not been in charge for long.

[tree-fancier123]

13 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

I agree I do not see much poverty.  Except perhaps when it comes to buying a house.  I feel for my kids when they want to buy their first house.  

I feel for me, not being able to buy a bigger place, things were better in 1915 with a price to earnings multiple of only 2 - so if we were back in 1915 a house would be 70k in todays money, then off to the western front

[tree-fancier123]

weird how house prices were even more expensive than today in 1845 - before the minimum wage a lot of those people in 1845 would have been properly poor, so the average wage much lower

[Squaredy]

24 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

weird how house prices were even more expensive than today in 1845 - before the minimum wage a lot of those people in 1845 would have been properly poor, so the average wage much lower

Well of course people did not buy their house then.

 

And I totally agree about upgrading.  I would like to move out of suburbia into proper countryside.  But to do that even for a smaller house means finding about £150,000 extra, so it just ain’t gonna happen.  So yes, we all lose by having high house prices, unless we are lucky enough to inherit or for some other reason have multiple houses.

[Mesterh]

Royal Navy intercepts two Russian ships in English Channel

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

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HMS Severn headed off the warship and a tanker as they sailed west through the Dover Strait, the Ministry of Defence said.

 

Those pesky Russians are up to no good I tells ye. Probably coming to pick up their paid UK politician comrades if the truth be known.