Petition to get Nigel Farage onto the EU Referendum Debate

[eggsarascal]

I think I follow your line there Eggs.

 

It was less than £100 for 2 pairs of reading bins.

 

Now that might be a lot of paper for some folks and result in those with a need not getting what they need - I appreciate that potential could exist.

 

But (some) people (I've seen shocking examples of it first hand) seem to treat the NHS as a right / entitlement that they can use, abuse and neglect at will - because it's free.

 

Of course it's not free, it's eye wateringly expensive, but, because nobody pays at point of delivery, it appears to be "free."

 

People (sweeping generalisation alert) tend to take better care of kit / equipment that they own compared to stuff that is provided by the employer or hired - there was a thread about lawn mower maintenance costs a while back.

 

I think part of the problem is that too many people take the NHS for granted because it appears free. There's a lack of respect, appreciation and personal responsibility - missed appointments for example.

 

I have to visit the GP later today. An uncommon event but I'm already starting to feel the rage building as I anticipate a waiting room full of lazy, selfish, ungrateful bstards (on the off chance someone is reading this and will be in the GP surgery, and isn't a lazy, selfish, ungrateful bstard - please disregard, it doesn't apply to you!)

 

That potential 'could' exist!...... It does.

 

£100 to the likes of me ain't a lot, been lucky, or made me own? Some folk couldn't gather together £100 in a month, should they do without bins?

 

As for lazy, I'm great at it, so long as I draw enough dough to give Mrs Egg her housekeeping each month all is well.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

That potential 'could' exist!...... It does.

 

£100 to the likes of me ain't a lot, been lucky, or made me own? Some folk couldn't gather together £100 in a month, should they do without bins?

 

As for lazy, I'm great at it, so long as I draw enough dough to give Mrs Egg her housekeeping each month all is well.

 

I have to admit Eggs, I may have set a bit of a trap there.... You may have jumped into it!

 

In my example, I personally paid <£100 for a specific service which I was really happy with. It was efficient, timely, professional and profitable (for the service provider.)

 

All those that have made tax & NI contributions, often over many years, are probably paying a good deal more, over the years, for a service that perhaps wouldn't be as efficient, timely and professional - and runs at a considerable loss, rather than at a profit (and unless I'm mistaken, there are the usual concessions available at Specsavers for the ever growing cohort of non tax & NI contributors (I had to try really hard there.))

 

It's a tough call, I appreciate that. I salute Jeremy Hunt for having the kahoonas to finally take the bull by the horns and attempt to grip a problem that so many previous politicians, doubtless mindful of their own reputation & career progression, have kicked into the long grass for way too long.

 

There's certainly something I can't reconcile with this Doctor's industrial action - I think I've got it, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Junior Doctors...... Not your stereo typical ex German military parka, Che Guevarra T-shirt, shemagh and cnd pin badge wearing bearded commies that one might expect to be singing "the Red Flag" in the student union bar... So why has it come to this?

 

I think the answer is that the NHS, and possibly some of those in it, have assumed a form of unassailable superiority which believes it, the NHS, to be somehow above criticism, budgetary control or political direction. And I think the general public are, by and large, so fickle as to crucify any politician that seeks to modify it whilst canonising those that spout the loudest about "protecting" it.

 

Hence we end up with this deeply ingrained Labour + NHS = good, Tory + NHS = evil incarnate.

 

Politicians avoid the difficult task in the name of self preservation, Joe Public accepts what they think is a status quo (which in real terms is a progressive decline) and the NHS maintains it's enviable image as the crown jewels.

 

Who loses out..... Well let's see what state the NHS is in in 10-20 years time if nobody does nuffin about it now.

[eggsarascal]

I have to admit Eggs, I may have set a bit of a trap there.... You may have jumped into it!

 

In my example, I personally paid <£100 for a specific service which I was really happy with. It was efficient, timely, professional and profitable (for the service provider.)

 

All those that have made tax & NI contributions, often over many years, are probably paying a good deal more, over the years, for a service that perhaps wouldn't be as efficient, timely and professional - and runs at a considerable loss, rather than at a profit (and unless I'm mistaken, there are the usual concessions available at Specsavers for the ever growing cohort of non tax & NI contributors (I had to try really hard there.))

 

It's a tough call, I appreciate that. I salute Jeremy Hunt for having the kahoonas to finally take the bull by the horns and attempt to grip a problem that so many previous politicians, doubtless mindful of their own reputation & career progression, have kicked into the long grass for way too long.

 

There's certainly something I can't reconcile with this Doctor's industrial action - I think I've got it, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Junior Doctors...... Not your stereo typical ex German military parka, Che Guevarra T-shirt, shemagh and cnd pin badge wearing bearded commies that one might expect to be singing "the Red Flag" in the student union bar... So why has it come to this?

 

I think the answer is that the NHS, and possibly some of those in it, have assumed a form of unassailable superiority which believes it, the NHS, to be somehow above criticism, budgetary control or political direction. And I think the general public are, by and large, so fickle as to crucify any politician that seeks to modify it whilst canonising those that spout the loudest about "protecting" it.

 

Hence we end up with this deeply ingrained Labour + NHS = good, Tory + NHS = evil incarnate.

 

Politicians avoid the difficult task in the name of self preservation, Joe Public accepts what they think is a status quo (which in real terms is a progressive decline) and the NHS maintains it's enviable image as the crown jewels.

 

Who loses out..... Well let's see what state the NHS is in in 10-20 years time if nobody does nuffin about it now.

 

Your trap didn't really work Mr Johnson.

 

Junior doctors don't strike for no reason. Jeremy Hunt is something that rymes with is Surname.

 

And whilst you're on about tax & NI, don't you try to dump and avoid?

Edited May 5, 2016 by eggsarascal

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Your trap didn't really work Mr Johnson.

 

 

 

Junior doctors don't strike for no reason. Jeremy Hunt is something that rymes with is Surname.

 

 

 

And whilst you're on about tax & NI, don't you try to dump and avoid?

 

 

Ah, but you haven't really addressed the key point!

 

Is the NHS cost effective & good value for money now, or is it possible that it could be done better for less?

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding Mr Hunt.

 

JDs seem to be advancing the argument that there are insufficient staff to run at full operational capacity 365. Well, if true, fine, the system will not deliver and Mr Hunt will be called omelette face. However, i don't see it as JDs role to kick off about manning levels, that's for administration / management to address.

 

I agree, it's uncharacteristic for medical staff to strike and that's the bit I don't fully understand. From all IV read / heard about it, I really don't understand the need.

 

I've paid tax & NI since age 15 a good portion of that time at the higher rate.

 

Now I'm self employed and 6 years into a battle with HMRC that went to Tribunal last September which found about 70/30 in my favour and is awaiting Upper Tribunal, and I'm confident of getting the other 30% too.

 

So to answer your question, I'll pay what's due, and die fighting over a penny more than I think right.

 

Maybe if so much tax revenue wasn't pissed up the wall I'd be happier paying a bit more!

[eggsarascal]

Ah, but you haven't really addressed the key point!

 

Is the NHS cost effective & good value for money now, or is it possible that it could be done better for less?

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree regarding Mr Hunt.

 

JDs seem to be advancing the argument that there are insufficient staff to run at full operational capacity 365. Well, if true, fine, the system will not deliver and Mr Hunt will be called omelette face. However, i don't see it as JDs role to kick off about manning levels, that's for administration / management to address.

 

I agree, it's uncharacteristic for medical staff to strike and that's the bit I don't fully understand. From all IV read / heard about it, I really don't understand the need.

 

I've paid tax & NI since age 15 a good portion of that time at the higher rate.

 

Now I'm self employed and 6 years into a battle with HMRC that went to Tribunal last September which found about 70/30 in my favour and is awaiting Upper Tribunal, and I'm confident of getting the other 30% too.

 

So to answer your question, I'll pay what's due, and die fighting over a penny more than I think right.

 

Maybe if so much tax revenue wasn't pissed up the wall I'd be happier paying a bit more!

 

Yes, the NHS is value for money, ever been close to death and needed them?, I have, worth their weight in gold as far as I'm concerned. (Although I did get private health care through Mrs Eggs company policy), non the less if it weren't for the NHS I'd be brown bread.

 

Takes some thinking about, I guess.

Having a sister inlaw that as worked for the NHS all her working life tells me that it aint a staffing problems

[matelot]

few pages back in the thread there was a lot of talk about immigration, I've just been sent for "diversity training" at the public estate I do casual work for, anyone who's been on diversity training will know its relevance to this topic. Anyway having seen the fact and figures there are actually a very small percentage of "foreigners" in the country and make up a tiny percentage of those claiming benefits.

 

There are about 8 million foreigners living in the UK. I would say that’s quite a lot…

 

50% of Muslim men are unemployed. 75% of Muslim women are unemployed…..

 

Migrants cost the UK taxpayer £120 billion between 1995 and 2011….

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom

 

Britain's coping classes at breaking point - Telegraph

 

Immigration from outside Europe 'cost £120 billion' - Telegraph

[difflock]

I think I follow your line there Eggs.

 

It was less than £100 for 2 pairs of reading bins.

 

Now that might be a lot of paper for some folks and result in those with a need not getting what they need - I appreciate that potential could exist.

 

But (some) people (I've seen shocking examples of it first hand) seem to treat the NHS as a right / entitlement that they can use, abuse and neglect at will - because it's free.

 

Of course it's not free, it's eye wateringly expensive, but, because nobody pays at point of delivery, it appears to be "free."

 

People (sweeping generalisation alert) tend to take better care of kit / equipment that they own compared to stuff that is provided by the employer or hired - there was a thread about lawn mower maintenance costs a while back.

 

I think part of the problem is that too many people take the NHS for granted because it appears free. There's a lack of respect, appreciation and personal responsibility - missed appointments for example.

 

I have to visit the GP later today. An uncommon event but I'm already starting to feel the rage building as I anticipate a waiting room full of lazy, selfish, ungrateful bstards (on the off chance someone is reading this and will be in the GP surgery, and isn't a lazy, selfish, ungrateful bstard - please disregard, it doesn't apply to you!)

 

Absolutly Excellent Post above.

 

And, sorry Eggs, but there ARE staffing "issues".

Cause by uncaring unfit bloodyminded staff who "play the system"

Honest

Anyway, that Aside, "£$%^&* barstewart Consultants (and some still not dry behind the ears) who insist on the right to work Private using NHS facilities

Fornicate Right-Off

and

If you are going to work for the NHS as a Consultant, or indeed a Surgeon, you will work a shift pattern covering 24/7 thus maximizing use of very expensive facilities and operating theaters 24/7.

Less 3 day weekends and 10:00 starts.

And Reception or nursing staff should be trained, equipped and expected to wipe the (copious) blood off the glass at the reception desk.

witnessed with my own eyes, up close like.

It was there for hours and hours "not our job" being the response when I finally commented

like it was still there when I finally booked out of Causalty, untreated, and stitched myself up at home.

Ps

A deep puncture wound from a rusty re-bar, in the bicep, probably stonking with Tetnus bacteria too.

Edited May 5, 2016 by difflock

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

few pages back in the thread there was a lot of talk about immigration, I've just been sent for "diversity training" at the public estate I do casual work for, anyone who's been on diversity training will know its relevance to this topic. Anyway having seen the fact and figures there are actually a very small percentage of "foreigners" in the country and make up a tiny percentage of those claiming benefits. Its easy to adopt the attitude that one section of our society is to blame for everything and without them life would be rosey. Truth is the country is in dire shape for many reasons, if it makes it easier for you to blame one single aspect then blame the government for poor management, over subsidising some industries, refusing to help other industries, giving too many benefits to those who don't deserve them, then not having the money to give decent benefits to those who do deserve them, failing to protect skilled wages, following all Brussels laws while other EU countries pick and choose what they follow, the list goes on. Our current government is spineless, no guts to make the tough decisions or fight the right fight, Farage may be a prick but he's a strong willed and determined prick who sticks to his principles. For better or worse sometimes a country needs a strong hand to slap it back into shape.

 

Not sure from what you've written how much of the case you're presenting is consequential to your recent diversity training?

 

Diversity & Equality and immigration policy are 2 fairly distinct and separate subjects. If the majority of your diversity training was given over to discussing immigration it might be worth questioning the value and delivery of the training?

[Ian C]

Proper handbags thread this one! I like Nigel, about the only politician that wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth! Dodgy Dave and corbyns cronies are all public school boy chums in it for them selves and no one else. All w@nkers.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Ian C

[Stubby]

Proper handbags thread this one! I like Nigel, about the only politician that wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth! Dodgy Dave and corbys cronies are all public school boy chums in it for them selves and no one else. All w@nkers.

 

 

Pint pot wasn't it ?