Kiln dried Firewood - The future ?

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

Isn't kiln dried inferior to air dried anyway since the kiln drying removes the lignin in the wood?

[arboriculturist]

Not if you wanted to sell more than a few hundred cubic metres a year. Would be near impossible to air dry 1000+ cubic metres a year at 20% moisture. To be honest though we will all be buying in kiln dried hardwood from Europe in 10/15 years time as there will be no hardwood left in the UK to process and Stove shops/manufactures have been telling people for years that softwood is rubbish and you should only burn hardwood.

 

There are one or two on the Forum who have the space, air drying those volumes already and loads across the channel.

[arboriculturist]

Isn't kiln dried inferior to air dried anyway since the kiln drying removes the lignin in the wood?

 

Quite right - there are many more volatiles in timber than may be apparent and kiln drying can have a detrimental effect, due to enhanced losses of these elements in the timber upon heating:thumbdown:.

[ash_smith123]

Yes it depends who you are but I'm guessing not many people have the money or space to store 3000 tonnes for over a year before you can sell or use it.

If you wanted to sell 1000 cube a winter and air dry it to 20% which would take pretty much a year you would need 2000 cube stored up. 1000 dry for the winter your going into and another 1000 drying ready for the year after.

What do you do with your waste? We get around a cubic metre of chip/processor bits/offcuts/crap bits from 8/10 cubic metres of cut firewood so you would have around 100 cubic metres of waste a year if you sold 1000 cube. Why not bother with the RHI and just get a system that burns all that? There was another thread yesterday saying people can't get rid of it.

[arboriculturist]

Yes it depends who you are but I'm guessing not many people have the money or space to store 3000 tonnes for over a year before you can sell or use it.

If you wanted to sell 1000 cube a winter and air dry it to 20% which would take pretty much a year you would need 2000 cube stored up. 1000 dry for the winter your going into and another 1000 drying ready for the year after.

What do you do with your waste? We get around a cubic metre of chip/processor bits/offcuts/crap bits from 8/10 cubic metres of cut firewood so you would have around 100 cubic metres of waste a year if you sold 1000 cube. Why not bother with the RHI and just get a system that burns all that? There was another thread yesterday saying people can't get rid of it.

 

Those with kilns comissioned pre - July 2014 made a sound business decision.

With tariffs degressing to 3.5p by October 2015 it will no longer be economic to install a standard kiln installation like Glen Farrow.

 

Those who have wood waste to burn have the option to small scale dry in times of need. We can get wastage down to 2.5% or less waste by buying selected roundwood so don't have much.

 

I think that over time the established kiln dryers will just see a fall in their margins from kiln drying, but they are generally established setups and will be able to adjust their production model as time passes.

 

At the moment they are making a very good return on their investment, so good for them.

[openspaceman]

Isn't kiln dried inferior to air dried anyway since the kiln drying removes the lignin in the wood?

It won't be loss of lignin as this degrades at higher temperatures than the other two major components of wood, cellulose and hemicellulose. I think you may be referring to Volatile Organic Compounds which get driven off at temperatures higher than 100C but below pyrolysis temperatures, I've never noticed much mass loss so doubt it would be significant in the big picture.

 

As you increase the temperature some low energy vapours are driven off, like acetic acid from hardwood, but as the mass of the remaining wood decreases its calorific value actually increases (torrefication) and it gains some interesting physical attributes, like it resists water and attracts oil, this is how the product "seasweep" was developed for oil spills if it still exists.

[arboriculturist]

It won't be loss of lignin as this degrades at higher temperatures than the other two major components of wood, cellulose and hemicellulose. I think you may be referring to Volatile Organic Compounds which get driven off at temperatures higher than 100C but below pyrolysis temperatures, I've never noticed much mass loss so doubt it would be significant in the big picture.

 

As you increase the temperature some low energy vapours are driven off, like acetic acid from hardwood, but as the mass of the remaining wood decreases its calorific value actually increases (torrefication) and it gains some interesting physical attributes, like it resists water and attracts oil, this is how the product "seasweep" was developed for oil spills if it still exists.

 

You'r on a Firewood Forum here O space - may need to tone the science down a touch!

[Logsnstuff]

Its not impossible to air dry large quantities.

I have far more external space to air dry logs than dry internal storage to store kd logs.

 

same for us we space not an issue if the yard fills just take a bit of field farmer will tack so extra rent on.

[Johny Walker]

same for us we space not an issue if the yard fills just take a bit of field farmer will tack so extra rent on.

 

is ther was there somthing called a pallet bag, sure i saw it on here ???

 

anybody,

[ash_smith123]

It won't be loss of lignin as this degrades at higher temperatures than the other two major components of wood, cellulose and hemicellulose. I think you may be referring to Volatile Organic Compounds which get driven off at temperatures higher than 100C but below pyrolysis temperatures, I've never noticed much mass loss so doubt it would be significant in the big picture.

 

 

 

As you increase the temperature some low energy vapours are driven off, like acetic acid from hardwood, but as the mass of the remaining wood decreases its calorific value actually increases (torrefication) and it gains some interesting physical attributes, like it resists water and attracts oil, this is how the product "seasweep" was developed for oil spills if it still exists.

 

 

Yep... What this guy said! [emoji106]