College and what the industry really needs

[the village idiot]

Agreed, I believe colleges, schools and employers need a collective approach.. supply outstrips demand by far.

 

Is this an issue that's come from a lack of governing body? A Corgi if you will.. someone to stop people with 2 weeks training starting a company.. or working without a need for minimum requirements?

 

Supply certainly doesn't outstrip demand in the woodland management and forestry sectors. I meet managers and contractors all the time who really struggle to find good young cutters.

Could something be done at college level to enthuse more students into the woods and even things up a bit?

[MWArb]

Supply certainly doesn't outstrip demand in the woodland management and forestry sectors. I meet managers and contractors all the time who really struggle to find good young cutters.

Could something be done at college level to enthuse more students into the woods and even things up a bit?

 

Certainly can my friend... I was only today discussing the possibility of splitting the forestry and arb course back into their respective models..

 

Student uptake numbers originally lead to the combining of forestry and Arboriculture but maybe now is the time they change that... The forestry part of both the lvl 2 and 3 are lacking imo, better resources would help..

 

Perhaps more forestry managers would come forward and offer contracts for training.. we can always use more resources and the students would get first hand experiance of real work.

The logistics of unqualified staff on site is often a turn off but can be overcome easily enough I feel.

[MattyF]

I would like to see colleges only taking students with a minimum of 6 months experience already in the industry.

[Dan Curtis]

I've worked with people from your college Martyn, and several other colleges. They all seem to leave on a similar level whichever college they've been to.

 

From an arb perspective, there seems to be a lack of understanding that we're production cutters. I'm not talking the same lines as forestry, but pace in this industry comes from working efficiently as a team. It's one thing being able to knock a branch off a tree, but there doesn't seem to be anything ingrained in any of the students I've worked with over the last 5 years or so that suggests they understand the whole picture.

 

For me the whole job is about logistics, how fast will this branch be gone and chipped so I can get the next one down pronto. Most of the college lads/leavers I've worked with will either take an age to cut nothing, or bash bits off all over the place, without consideration for where they'll land, facing what direction and who has to pick them up. They'll cut things off that are small, but won't go through a chipper because they've cut a 6" stub instead of snedding from the tree. Log wood will come down with dirty great stubs on, making stacking and handling a pain, as well as being dangerous once stacked. If you cut a branch off, cut it flush! (Obviously I'm not talking pruning here)

 

From a forestry perspective, again, they can't sned. It's a basic skill that can make all the difference to the pace and safety of a job.

 

Get them to understand the fundamentals of moving brash and snedding timber properly and they should be able to transfer this to working from a rope and harness. If they understand how things work on the ground, it'll make them better climbers because they'll know how to keep the groundsmen's tasks manageable, therefore making the climbing work easier and quicker.

 

Sorry if this is a bit of a rambling rant, but it's the basics that are missing imo.

[JaySmith]

IMO the CS units should be more like irata, I.e you do the training then start as level one. Once you have sufficient hours experience you then progress to level 2 and then again to level 3 etc. I think our industry would benefit from a system like this rather than sweetie tickets

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

IMO the CS units should be more like irata, I.e you do the training then start as level one. Once you have sufficient hours experience you then progress to level 2 and then again to level 3 etc. I think our industry would benefit from a system like this rather than sweetie tickets

 

Do you mean something like QCF?

 

Qualifications and Credit Framework (QCF)

[MWArb]

I've worked with people from your college Martyn, and several other colleges. They all seem to leave on a similar level whichever college they've been to.

 

From an arb perspective, there seems to be a lack of understanding that we're production cutters. I'm not talking the same lines as forestry, but pace in this industry comes from working efficiently as a team. It's one thing being able to knock a branch off a tree, but there doesn't seem to be anything ingrained in any of the students I've worked with over the last 5 years or so that suggests they understand the whole picture.

 

For me the whole job is about logistics, how fast will this branch be gone and chipped so I can get the next one down pronto. Most of the college lads/leavers I've worked with will either take an age to cut nothing, or bash bits off all over the place, without consideration for where they'll land, facing what direction and who has to pick them up. They'll cut things off that are small, but won't go through a chipper because they've cut a 6" stub instead of snedding from the tree. Log wood will come down with dirty great stubs on, making stacking and handling a pain, as well as being dangerous once stacked. If you cut a branch off, cut it flush! (Obviously I'm not talking pruning here)

 

From a forestry perspective, again, they can't sned. It's a basic skill that can make all the difference to the pace and safety of a job.

 

Get them to understand the fundamentals of moving brash and snedding timber properly and they should be able to transfer this to working from a rope and harness. If they understand how things work on the ground, it'll make them better climbers because they'll know how to keep the groundsmen's tasks manageable, therefore making the climbing work easier and quicker.

 

Sorry if this is a bit of a rambling rant, but it's the basics that are missing imo.

 

Your spot on Dan, the whole reason for this thread is to help change that.

 

I have been sharing this opinion with the college since I started there, I'm a product of the college as a mature student and from both student and now instructor side I feel that in education in general the courses are perhaps now outdated in structure, are we trying to teach too much?

 

I don't overestimate my own experience level in this matter, and wont pretend to know more than I do, I learn constantly while on the job myself and have plenty to learn.

 

Imo it takes time, working often, to see enough variety of jobs, in order for a complete climber to have the understanding of most climbing scenarios.

 

however it should only take a minute to understand the machine that is a crew.

The message is clear, there needs to be the knowledge of our industry but it has to be backed up with actual work, well organised and when their ready under pressure of time and conditions if possible.

 

The hardest part for education I believe is resources.

There has to be a logistically simple way of getting them real work.

problem is as you describe, time as they say is money and while learning and practicing students take time gaining skills as we all did but is there place for them to learn in an industry that's built on efficiency?

[treequip]

College and what the industry really needs

 

What the industry needs is a college output that..........

 

Knows how to drag brash and feed a chipper, more than one branch at a time and without a mobile in the other hand.

 

Knows how to tie the basic knots properly, first time without asking "is that right?" in the weakest plaintive voice they can muster.

 

Knows how to sharpen a saw, properly and in reasonable time.

 

Knows that just because they managed to pass a couple of simple "don't kill yourself with a chainsaw" tests, they aren't automatically worth top dollar wages.

 

The ones you can get them to that, "ready for work" standard, they can have further education, a climbing harness, driving and trailer licence and all those other goodies:laugh1:

[Dan Curtis]

Knows how to sharpen a saw, properly and in reasonable time.

 

 

And when instead of trying to burn their way through the day because "it's quicker than sharpening on site"

[JaySmith]

Do you mean something like QCF?

 

Qualifications and Credit Framework (QCF)

 

Yeah similar to QCF. As I understand it this relates to the 'theory' side of the job as you progress up through the educational ranks. The industry needs something similar to QCF where you can only progress once you have relevant experience and time on the job, this is how irata works but with arb you can get more bits of paper than WH Smith after a 6 week course