Insurance without tickets

[AHPP]

So it was just the actual insurance company names you were after then. You would have been quicker picking up the phone:lol:

 

A couple have been suggested on the thread and a couple by PM but generally speaking you're right:001_rolleyes:

[skyhuck]

A couple have been suggested on the thread and a couple by PM but generally speaking you're right:001_rolleyes:

 

I would imagine most have tickets, so have no experience of asking for insurance without them.

[JimM]

One of my mates on here asked the question of his insurance company the other day, "You've not asked to see proof of tickets. What if a rigging job goes wrong and I am claimed against". Answer- "then we would ask to see your tickets".

Trust, I believe.

Difficult to answer to a lawyer in court that you have no "Professional certificates of competence", nothing to show that you have had relevant training. Which is where you will be if you have to fight a non-payout by the insurance company.

Then you have to fight to prove that your years of experience mean that you can demonstrate how to do the task safely, but which went wrong.

It may come out well, but you know that they'll make you squirm for it. And all the time that takes, the injured party will be waiting for some kind of payout.

Is there some particular reason you want to avoid getting assessed?

[Johny Walker]

my dad worked in trees for 60yrs with nothing more than a driving liecense,never had an issue getting insurance .then again he never had to claim of it either

[AHPP]

I can't see any more of the info I actually wanted making its way on here now (many thanks to the people who did help in that respect) so I will briefly address other points (made by people who I politely asked not to in the first place...):

 

 

NPTC certificates are not worth the paper they are written on. They are handed out like sweets by training institutions happy to have you back for another few courses. Competent people have the same piece of paper as incompetent people. I feel sorry for people who are good at tree work, have worked hard for and have the tickets but are lumped in with people who have the same tickets and are shìt at tree work. I equally dislike bad people being able to pass themselves off as good people.

 

People (who sell insurance or employ tree workers) who require tickets before quality are not the sort of people I want to deal with. Me not having tickets is a great way to make sure I never accidentally deal with these people.

I want to deal with people actively interested in quality rather than lazily relying on the aforementioned tickets (which are no reflection of quality).

 

Cost doesn't bother me. I'm currently part way through a course of training and qualification for a different type of work at a cost of £35,000 (though that cost could easily go to £50,000 or £60,000). It's a cost:benefit thing.

 

If I relied on tree work as my only source of income, I might toe the line and get some tickets for an easy life. This applies to gaining bargaining power with insurance firms or being able to work for people who demand NPTC certification. Luckily, I am fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose work that I do.

 

 

I hope that answers questions posed. I'm sure some will agree with me and I'm very sure some won't. Feel free to (a)debate intelligently or (b)do one.

[skyhuck]

I can't see any more of the info I actually wanted making its way on here now (many thanks to the people who did help in that respect) so I will briefly address other points (made by people who I politely asked not to in the first place...):

 

 

NPTC certificates are not worth the paper they are written on. They are handed out like sweets by training institutions happy to have you back for another few courses. Competent people have the same piece of paper as incompetent people. I feel sorry for people who are good at tree work, have worked hard for and have the tickets but are lumped in with people who have the same tickets and are shìt at tree work. I equally dislike bad people being able to pass themselves off as good people.

 

People (who sell insurance or employ tree workers) who require tickets before quality are not the sort of people I want to deal with. Me not having tickets is a great way to make sure I never accidentally deal with these people.

I want to deal with people actively interested in quality rather than lazily relying on the aforementioned tickets (which are no reflection of quality).

 

Cost doesn't bother me. I'm currently part way through a course of training and qualification for a different type of work at a cost of £35,000 (though that cost could easily go to £50,000 or £60,000). It's a cost:benefit thing.

 

If I relied on tree work as my only source of income, I might toe the line and get some tickets for an easy life. This applies to gaining bargaining power with insurance firms or being able to work for people who demand NPTC certification. Luckily, I am fortunate enough to be able to pick and choose work that I do.

 

 

I hope that answers questions posed. I'm sure some will agree with me and I'm very sure some won't. Feel free to (a)debate intelligently or (b)do one.

 

What a load of codswallop

[larryno1]

I agree with above , when I was doing my 30 / 31 one of the guys at the end in the assessment was sharpening his chain backwards , this is after having the 2 days training before hand and also having been working for the council, and he still passed ! I certainly wouldn't rely on him to rig down and use a chainsaw if he could nt do this . Definatly a money making thing,

[skyhuck]

I agree with above , when I was doing my 30 / 31 one of the guys at the end in the assessment was sharpening his chain backwards , this is after having the 2 days training before hand and also having been working for the council, and he still passed ! I certainly wouldn't rely on him to rig down and use a chainsaw if he could nt do this . Definatly a money making thing,

 

True, but for the purposes of fulfilling your legal requirements and ticking an insurers questionnaire box tickets are the easiest method.

 

How would you prove competence without them?

[Andy Collins]

What a load of codswallop

 

Hardly constructive Huck, and based on many past posts on this very forum I think I can see where AHPP is coming from.

However, I do agree that what other way would a client/insurer have of checking you have everything in order? Ok, it's not a perfect system, I know a "climber" who spent three years doing Arb at college, at tax payers expense, who weighed then about 26stone, he couldn't get off the ground (by his own admittance) yet he qualified as a climber, complete with AR ticket! But it is the system we have, and we need some kind of benchmark, a starting point.

AHPP, how would you know a good climbing arborist from a poor tree hack when he turns up at the door to quote for you? What would you ask for to convince you he was what he said he was? If his tickets are meaningless, you would surely doubt his insurance cover also? If you are cutting trees etc for clients, how do you convince them you are competent to do so?

[AHPP]

AHPP, how would you know a good climbing arborist from a poor tree hack when he turns up at the door to quote for you? What would you ask for to convince you he was what he said he was? If his tickets are meaningless, you would surely doubt his insurance cover also? If you are cutting trees etc for clients, how do you convince them you are competent to do so?

 

That's the £1m question! Not sure I 100% know the answer.

 

I think you just have to start from a presumption that people will stick to their word and do a good job (unless there are serious red flags - "Sorry I'm late to quote, sir. I just dropped a Giant Redwood on my truck.").

 

How did anyone judge a tradesman in the good(bad?) old days? You couldn't show a portfolio of neat work on your smartphone. Nobody had tickets.

I imagine people relied on trust, reputation and the economic reality that bad people shouldn't be able to survive in business.

Fred Dibnah was being talked about on here the other day. Who asked to see his IRATA paperwork, his level 9 NVQ in laddoriculture, his pipe smoking permit?