Average day rate for tree surgery

[Hodge]

I totally agree,what about depreciation service costs , add your in your time for quoting jobs as well.Until we as an industry start charging realistic and sustainable prices which enable us to build a business and have a decent lifestyle were never going to be recognised as a true industry.What happens when you need to replace kit or get hit with a big repair bill on truck or chipper ,think what can I get for doing the job not what can I do it for ,other industries do .

 

 

That's my point exactly. Last month I had a £1000 repairs on my landy, new lights on my trailer, new tow hitch on my trailer. This month new set of blades for chipper, 4 pairs sharpened and a new roller box cover. All this has to be paid for on top of the usual costs. Its taken me a long time to fully understand how to run a business and being cheap and winning all the work is really a short term thing.

 

 

Hodge

[skyhuck]

I really don't know how some of you can sustain a business on prices like £ 390 for 2 climber and a chipper? So as well as public and employers liability insurance do you have tools/chipper/trailer insured? Van insurance? Running costs,servicing,road tax etc? No wonder our industry is in such a state with prices like that. I'm not having a dig at anyone I am just surprised you can run a business on such low rates.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Arbtalk

 

I agree, BUT the majority of firms are not VAT registered, so the sub £400 day must be the norm.

 

Or are some charging more, but only work part-time (to stay under the VAT limit) while others charge less but work more.

 

So lower rates are possible, but harder work.

[Philip Anderson]

I agree, BUT the majority of firms are not VAT registered, so the sub £400 day must be the norm.

 

Or are some charging more, but only work part-time (to stay under the VAT limit) while others charge less but work more.

 

So lower rates are possible, but harder work.

 

So how long do you stay at sub £400 a day for ? Your on a looser there as inflation goes up housing rent etc also all your suppliers prices move upwards and are not static.

Would the threat of having to register for vat stop you archiving a good turnover and profit? £81 k is not a great turnover for a 3 man team .

[Coletti]

Obviously everyone is going to be different because every one has different needs etc. I can do a 3 man day with chipper for 480 if need be and im still making a pretty penny but it's easy for me as the only finance/out goings I have if a little finance on my truck. I don't think there can be a wrong day rate, just dependent on the particular business

[Tom D]

When I first started out we used to charge £220 a day for 2 men 2 vehicles and a chipper...

These days the absolute minimum I would charge for a team will be £450, and that will be for one of those easy jobs that gets you back to the yard at 2:00.

 

In reality a hard day on a dismantle for example can be anywhere from £650-1000.

 

 

But the really important thing, and I have said this before, is to forget about a day rate and think about how much you make in the week, and the month. Aim for £2.5-3k a week and its not a problem if you do £350 one day so long as you do £650 another. If you do £350 every day then you have a problem, you'll always be busy...... and you'll always be poor.

 

Think about it this way: try and get an extra £50 on every job, thats £250 a week, and if you loose 1 job in 8 because of it, you're no worse off. In fact you are better off because you have an extra day that you can work, spend in the workshop, or with your family....

[Tim Stobart Tree Surgery]

When I first started out we used to charge £220 a day for 2 men 2 vehicles and a chipper...

These days the absolute minimum I would charge for a team will be £450, and that will be for one of those easy jobs that gets you back to the yard at 2:00.

 

In reality a hard day on a dismantle for example can be anywhere from £650-1000.

 

 

But the really important thing, and I have said this before, is to forget about a day rate and think about how much you make in the week, and the month. Aim for £2.5-3k a week and its not a problem if you do £350 one day so long as you do £650 another. If you do £350 every day then you have a problem, you'll always be busy...... and you'll always be poor.

 

Think about it this way: try and get an extra £50 on every job, thats £250 a week, and if you loose 1 job in 8 because of it, you're no worse off. In fact you are better off because you have an extra day that you can work, spend in the workshop, or with your family....

 

You've got a good point here, I work on a flat day rate for what I think a job will take to complete, but some jobs, the big dismantling type, are stupid days in comparison to a bish bash bosh, knock over an 18"dbh type job. Given the choice of the two, 3 days on a tricky dismantle/tidy up or 3 separate simple days, and you would always choose the latter. I think I need to alter my pricing to reflect that.

 

It's not an easy field to get it right in. We can all compare our daily rates, but what we achieve in a day will be the biggest difference in price. The speed you climb at, size of saws and chipper, efficiency of your team, fitness, and dare I say the corners you are willing to cut/risks you may take to get a job done. All in all, I'd much rather do less work for the same money, than work my tit's off for the same. Under pricing is a good way to get yourself established and make a name/reputation, but you can't afford to keep at it. At least in this game, you can put your prices up from job to job, rather than having to go to your regular customer and tell them you're now pricing jobs at £100 more a day!

[Little Steven]

I agree, BUT the majority of firms are not VAT registered, so the sub £400 day must be the norm.

 

Or are some charging more, but only work part-time (to stay under the VAT limit) while others charge less but work more.

 

So lower rates are possible, but harder work.

 

Hi Skyhuck....

I set my stall in the market of tree work with exactly that... 2/3 days of good return a week. Keep under the limits for Vat.

Did not last very long, wasn't the turnover that got me it was been kit heavy, mewp, big bandit, fuel, ..... and as Hodge reminded me I need a new gearbox TD5 this week! losing a fortune in vat returns,

 

I use the fact that there are others 'that will do it far cheaper' as my selling point , sorry I even have been known to say you get 'what you pay for'

 

Whist there are people, for whatever reasons willing to work at low/cheap/economical/bargain/great prices the industry will struggle to pay good, fair, wages.

 

There is no point on one hand 'us' saying the climber should be 180/200 per day and charging £400 for trucks/chippers/fuel.... we need a reality check!

 

Now all that said, there are situation whereby guys £200... I think thats been well covered.

 

Steve

[TIMON]

Some very good points raised here.

What we should get compared to what we end up with can vary a lot..

We do about 30 quotes a week and book about 60-70% of them in the diary.... There are so many "firms" out there working for pittance. It's a fine balancing act to maintain value for ourselves and competing with cheap teams. I've looked at our figures and on average our 3 man teams earn between £450-£650 per truck per day.... Seems to be swings and roundabouts. Sometimes we're forced to do cheaper work just to keep going. We never set out to undercut everyone.... We don't want to de-value the industry.

Thanks

[Little Steven]

Some very good points raised here.

What we should get compared to what we end up with can vary a lot..

We do about 30 quotes a week and book about 60-70% of them in the diary.... There are so many "firms" out there working for pittance. It's a fine balancing act to maintain value for ourselves and competing with cheap teams. I've looked at our figures and on average our 3 man teams earn between £450-£650 per truck per day.... Seems to be swings and roundabouts. Sometimes we're forced to do cheaper work just to keep going. We never set out to undercut everyone.... We don't want to de-value the industry.

Thanks

Hi new guy,

 

Its very difficult to place an 'average' also..... what is been brought to the party? 4" chipper or 16", 1x66 that has to be sharpened or a truck load so the jobs is the most productive. brash drag or winch the whole tree for process.

 

There will some that make a margin on £200, I admit that will be a a couple of hours these days!

 

Steve

[Tim Stobart Tree Surgery]

It's a big question of how much kit you have/need for the job. If you have a van full of toys, then you need to charge for them, even on jobs that don't need them, you end up pricing yourself out of the little jobs. The lower your overheads the safer you are in terms of survival if the work slows, but then you'd struggle for the bigger jobs.

 

As for the fair wage, I saw an add on here the other day for groundsman (CS30,31, 38) nationwide, (I can't remember the firm) offering an hourly rate of between £8-£9 an hour. That's not even the living wage.

 

I live on a small island (6000 people), and have to do lots of different things to keep myself ticking over, some days I use a pair of secateurs and a silky, and I can charge as little as £80 for it. Others a full rig and try to charge that what it's worth. I'm pretty sure that on the basis of doing 50 climbing days a year (one a week), I need to be charging more than £300/day for two men to make it worthwhile.