What effect would scottish independence have on the UK tree industry?

[daltontrees]

It eems literally impossible to get an objective set of figures on this. People have been discussing an arguing about it for decades. If you have definitive figures adn a source reference I would be pleased to have a look.

 

But really what I meant was that the points in favour of independence were valid and, whereas there are no doubt many against independence that are just as valid, saying hte guy's points are invalid is not a coherent argument.

 

And more importantly still, if scotland gets independence then no amout of apportioning of curent revenues and assets is going to predicate what happens in the future because scotland will have to reinvent itself as a grown-up, non-complaining country that maximises resources, exploits markets, reins in expenditure and makes the most of everything. It's not governments that do that, it's people. What the SNP says it will do with and for Scotland is virtually irrelevant, we should assume that they can and will all be papped out and we start again. Forgetting the past and taking forward no preconceptions about past ways of doing and looking at things.

 

Taxes will probably be higher, but the quality of life (not to be confused with the standard of living) should be better.

 

As a matter of curiosity (honestly, I can't be bothered with arguments), if it could demonstrated that scotland is putting in much less than it is taking out, would that not be a case for chucking scotland out of the UK? Why keep it if it is a deadweight? Out of sympathy? Out of duty or a sense of history?

[woodrich]

I can't edit my post

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=1067252

 

This is what I was wittering about

 

It was The Darien Venture.

And Panama not Portugal.

 

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[Dean Lofthouse]

What you should be doing in reality is forgetting about oil, do your sums without it, if you can still run the country on manufacturing and export then why not go independent.

 

I would hazard a guess that Scotland's exports are not strong enough to go it alone without North Sea oil. You may be able to export that and save up a fund, but then how long will that fund last when oil runs out.

 

Oil will get a bit like coal shortly, the reserves that are left are very difficult to extract and cost much much more to get it, prices will increase very significantly and oil will go out of favour as technology is on the brink of finding a new power source.

 

What you cannot do is speculate on how much of your money the English spend, which is what we are hearing a lot of. The royal family ( and this is speculation) will probably bring in far more revenue than they cost, in tourism and commerce as ambassadors to the uk, the two princes are the best thing that has happened to this country in a long time

[wrsni]

Rather than speculate how much of your wealth we have squandered on us, the royal family, the M25 and not you, give us some figures

 

Income generated by Scotland minus total expenditure on Scotland

 

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all get more from the exchequer than we contribute and in Scotlands case that's allowing ALL North Sea oil revenue to be attributable to them.

 

North Sea oil revenue in the UK has been squandered by both a public sector and welfare system running totally out of control and both these things are still the biggest burden on UK finances.

 

Given that Salmond or the SNP have given no indication of trying to get these two things under control in an independent Scotland, in fact many of their policies indicate going even further down this route, there is no reason to believe that claiming all North Sea oil revenue for themselves is likely to improve an independent Scotland any more than it already does.

 

Also, as a net beneficiary of the exchequer instead of the Scots bleating on about how the revenue from "their oil" () has been wasted in the rest of the UK, there would be much more justification for English taxpayers to complain about how their hard earned wages are being squandered in the drug infested slums of Glasgow or supporting continued habitation of the Outer Hebrides.

[ballibeg]

 

As a matter of curiosity (honestly, I can't be bothered with arguments), if it could demonstrated that scotland is putting in much less than it is taking out, would that not be a case for chucking scotland out of the UK? Why keep it if it is a deadweight? Out of sympathy? Out of duty or a sense of history?

 

We support our sickest citizens with expensive hospital care and treatment. We don't throw them out when they cost too much.

 

Salmond also promised bbc shows would remain. That's been pointed out to be wrong today as well. Scotland would have to buy them and pay the currency fees to do so.

 

'you'll never take my Dr who! ! '

 

Dave

[tcar]

I might have dreamt this.

But isn't Scotland part of the UK because centuries ago one of your Kings wanted an Empire like England so he went after Portugal or something?

Then when he ran out of money we struck a deal.

I'm sure it was a TV program about Britain.

 

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The Darien Scheme....maybe if we have to have our own currency we could call it the Darien Dollar!!

[nooie]

That is an perfect example of pie in the sky idealism. Rose tinted glasses, head in the sand, and all the other expressions along those lines.

 

Such a simplistic point of view just isn't accurate. Costs will be much higher than you are expecting, revenue far lower. As I always ask fiercely pro Independence Scots - how exactly do you feel that the current arrangement is negatively affecting your life?

 

Well Gnome beat me to it. Get rid of that lot and I'll be much happier. NO head in the sand here!

[Dan Lacey]

Will they build a massive fence spanning east to west to stop them coming south when they want!!

 

 

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[Big J]

What you should be doing in reality is forgetting about oil, do your sums without it, if you can still run the country on manufacturing and export then why not go independent.

 

I would hazard a guess that Scotland's exports are not strong enough to go it alone without North Sea oil.

 

It's worth pointing out that an Independent Scotland would not get the defense contracts for building naval vessels. Significant proportions of the ship building involved in the Type 45 destroyer construction and the aircraft carrier construction have taken place in Scotland. 4 miles from me on the other side of the Firth sits the Queen Elizabeth at Rosyth. These two projects have a total value of over £12 billion and Scotland takes billions of that. Defense projects are exempt from EU tendering and procurement rules and a British Government can choose to build it's warships wherever it likes. It most certainly won't be Scotland and I'm sure it will be the death knell to Scottish shipbuilding.

 

Jonathan

[slasherscot]

It's worth pointing out that an Independent Scotland would not get the defense contracts for building naval vessels. Significant proportions of the ship building involved in the Type 45 destroyer construction and the aircraft carrier construction have taken place in Scotland. 4 miles from me on the other side of the Firth sits the Queen Elizabeth at Rosyth. These two projects have a total value of over £12 billion and Scotland takes billions of that. Defense projects are exempt from EU tendering and procurement rules and a British Government can choose to build it's warships wherever it likes. It most certainly won't be Scotland and I'm sure it will be the death knell to Scottish shipbuilding.

 

Jonathan

 

I think you will find Jonathan that westminister is committed to building type 26 ships on the Clyde for the foreseeable future, simply with the closure of Portsmouth and strength of skills on Clyde its the only place where they can be built

 

g