Agriculturally registered vehicles?

[Johny Walker]

some of our rules are different in N.I to GB

 

yea ,every thing in n.i runs on red

[Matthew Arnold]

A mate of mine has two old Discovery's which he runs on red both agri reg. One has a TDV6 under the hood (Disco 1) and a 7.5l Cummins under the bonnet (known as the beast). Both run on red and as he lives about 2 miles out of town he does he weekly shop with them as well as run around the farm.

[NI Tree]

yea ,every thing in n.i runs on red

or green when you look at the number of fuel laundering plants found each year

 

ha one of my cars run on red lol but it neaver on the road

[ArthurBottlesworth]

I believe They did some local farmers for going to quarry for stone to repair farm tracks using tractor and trailer

 

Quarry is about 7 miles away

 

I did some inspections for ministry re use of red diesel ....they were so aggressive

 

If caught using red diesel in hidden tank the fine then was

 

1)work out your consumption of fuel since you set business up

2) work out loss of revenue between red and white diesel

3) multiply by FIVE to calculate fine

 

They usually destroyed any business they caught

 

Most people caught by disgruntled employees tipping them off

 

I actually saw inspectors dance in a farmyard when they caught haulage contractor .........

[Shane]

This type of question seems to crop up quite frequently, and looking at some of the comments I can see why.

 

There seem to be so many variables, so many 'mates down the pub', retired solicitors and so on.

 

The issues of red diesel, ops licenses and towing combinations seem a minefield.

 

Is there a flowchart available - or an on-line questionaire which could put this lot to bed once and for all?

 

I know sweet FA about most of this but it looks like opinions and facts have been forged together. Some threads have suggested that even the VOSA staff have different interpretations.

 

Surely someone out there is clever enough to do us a picture- maybe the Arb Assn???

 

Till then I will work on the assumption that I can only do something if I KNOW its OK,

ignorance of the law (even the newest regulations) is no defence.

[Mobile Milling Mike]

Well you cant run it on red if you are going to cart goods on the road, You cant go more than a couple of miles legally, it wont get you around "O" licencing if the powers that be decide you don't qualify for the agricultural exemption, same goes with your driving licence.

 

Unfortunately the government tightened up on Ag usage, or rather the loss of revenue.

 

Gone are the days of winging it on AG because "its a bit like forestry" and that's "a bit like agriculture"

 

Wrong on most counts ,and I would know. I took the whole issue to the appeal court twice, first time the judge threw out the prossecution barrister and told him to "go home and study law" seccond time I won ,but against an A list barrister!. Hard going that one!The judge accepted that an agricultural/forestry machine was a machine whos definition depended more on what one did with it than on what it looked like. The issue of carrying goods . The law refers to the vehicles primary use, which infers that secondary uses are permisible. The distance one can carry raw materials is different to the distance one can carry produce. But if one is prepared to put the agricultural machine under an operators license, there is no distance restriction. Ultimately it comes down to , as I explained to the judge, not knocking the arse out of it!(Judges do like plain speaking believe it or not!). It comes down to a question of degree. If I were hauling goods (the example I used was tinned dog food ) to scotland behind my agricultural machine , I would be pushing my luck and this would be a primary use. But hauling some cord wood or sawmill logs ,hay etc localy,this would not.

One thing to remember. There are two sets of paralell legislation. The construction and use act ,and the Road vehicles excise duty act. Often they sound like they are the same .They are not. They must be treated separately.

[Matthew Storrs]

Yes I phoned up VOSA about tractor use, if its being used for non agricultural purpose including the haulage of goods, a tractor is required to have a restricted operators license, which means you need to put an advert in the local paper to state where your operating base will be and also prove that you have financial standing to keep your tractor in roadworthy condition. Its costs £254 pounds to apply for the license.

It is non MOT able so no need for that- but obviously it must be kept up to legal roadworthy condition. And of course red diesel is a no no.

This all seemed fine to me apart from the bit where i have to advertise in the local paper where I keep my tractor. I might just say come and help yourself to all my kit whilst your at it!

[treequip]

Wrong on most counts ,and I would know. I took the whole issue to the appeal court twice, first time the judge threw out the prossecution barrister and told him to "go home and study law" seccond time I won ,but against an A list barrister!. Hard going that one!The judge accepted that an agricultural/forestry machine was a machine whos definition depended more on what one did with it than on what it looked like. The issue of carrying goods . The law refers to the vehicles primary use, which infers that secondary uses are permisible. The distance one can carry raw materials is different to the distance one can carry produce. But if one is prepared to put the agricultural machine under an operators license, there is no distance restriction. Ultimately it comes down to , as I explained to the judge, not knocking the arse out of it!(Judges do like plain speaking believe it or not!). It comes down to a question of degree. If I were hauling goods (the example I used was tinned dog food ) to scotland behind my agricultural machine , I would be pushing my luck and this would be a primary use. But hauling some cord wood or sawmill logs ,hay etc localy,this would not.

One thing to remember. There are two sets of paralell legislation. The construction and use act ,and the Road vehicles excise duty act. Often they sound like they are the same .They are not. They must be treated separately.

 

So can we see the transcripts of this ground breaking case please

[lgl]

There Ihas its own set of rules. Arb vehicles have never come under this flag because they are not forestry, just because they may be registered as agricultural because of the type of vehicle doesn't make running on red legal.In my experience ... and I have been one, the grey areas are a way for the operators to convince themselves that what they are doing is legal, doesn't make it right though.

[treequip]

There Ihas its own set of rules. Arb vehicles have never come under this flag because they are not forestry, just because they may be registered as agricultural because of the type of vehicle doesn't make running on red legal.In my experience ... and I have been one, the grey areas are a way for the operators to convince themselves that what they are doing is legal, doesn't make it right though.

 

Quite right, in fact the grey areas are black and white, its the people hanging tree surgery on the coat tails of agriculture that call it grey in an attempt to legitimise their actions.

 

Some of the activities of commercial tree surgery touch on areas where agricultural exemptions may apply and while engaged in that, using the exemption is quite legitimate, but using the exemption across the board is likely to get you into trouble.