Badgers

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Kevin I usually agree with most of your comments but this time I think you may have your facts wrong...

http://www.defra.gov.uk/ahvla-en/files/pub-advice-tb-deer.pdf

 

As far as I'm aware, (I do a bit of deer stalking myself) all deer stalkers will check the lungs of shot deer for TB scarring, if found DEFRA should be informed.

How anyone can think its ok to destroy cattle but leave badgers alone is beyond my comprehension. Badgers spread bTB, FACT.

 

Had a quick look at the link, stopped after the title. Dealing with TB in your herd. The reference is for farmed not wild deer.

[Eddy_t]

Had a quick look at the link, stopped after the title. Dealing with TB in your herd. The reference is for farmed not wild deer.

 

And? Deer are deer, they live in herds, whether they be captive for the table, or travelling across the countryside freely, difference is that one herd can be checked and have medication administered, the other herd it's a lot harder to do. Every population needs the numbers controlling, it's just were allowed to do it with anything but humans, weed out the weak, old, sick, deformed or infertile, and develop a good stock, what you shouldn't get hung up too much upon is the word bovine, it's like referring to P. ramorum as sudden oak death, it existed before cows were cows, and it'll still be around when cows are no longer cows

 

 

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[pycoed]

The TB comes FROM the cattle TO the badger (wanted to add "you cretin" but thought better of it)

 

The vaccine is for the CATTLE not the badger (see bracket above)

 

Was it a long and industrious career in problem solving?

 

 

Do you really believe that TB passes only the one way? How do you explain closed herds, of which I am personally aware of several, that have suffered TB outbreaks in badger hotspots? (Since you appear to know little of agriculture, a "closed herd" is one in which no cattle are bought in, all replacements are reared on farm & the only cattle transports are surplus stock OUT from the farm)

 

The vaccine is for the BADGER, you cretin, that is what the govt. preferred "solution" is in Wales. The vaccine in cattle is similarly little more effective, but at least in the cattle situation there is a known & registered population, reactors are culled (at great cost to the country), & the remaining population of cattle are thereby somewhat protected. None of that is the case in the badger population.

 

Yes it was a long, industrious ( & lucrative) career.

 

Do you understand a little more now?

[Commando]

Had a quick look at the link, stopped after the title. Dealing with TB in your herd. The reference is for farmed not wild deer.

 

Perhaps a peek at this website then-

The British Deer Society - response to DEFRA

 

As a stalker you will probably be aware of BDS? I have seen many deer shot that were in very poor condition and on gralloch found their lungs covered with scarring.

 

TB infected cattle herds long before intensification and before cattle were moved long distances 'stressed' etc. Infact in 1934 the UK Gov believed 40% of cattle were infected. At that time pretty much all herds would have been small 'un-stressed' 'closed' affairs.

 

This issue needs to be dealt with, taking into account the facts, not the lies and inaccuracies peddled by the likes of Mr May, RSPCA, Badger Trust etc. Suggest you do some balanced research chum.

 

Wild boar controlling badgers and deer, wolves in SW England? Whatever next!!

[delabodge]

Before Badgers were protected to the hilt, there weren't any problems with BTB. But since they were protected problems have arose in varying forms. Although it sounds unpleasant about a "cull" it isnt technically a cull, it is just what should have been happening throughout the farming industry on a larger scale. Otherwise known as close control. Shoot the unhealthy ones but leave the young, fresh ones to keep a healthy stock.

 

But what would the tax payer rather pay £338/badger to be vaccinated or £1.50/round?

 

I pay towards £75k a yr for a lazy b,,,,,,d MP to sit on his arse doing nothing, I enjoy badgers and seeing them,,I dont enjoy seeing usless MPs,,,lets cull them as well,,,,,,,,,,,,while were at it,,,lets shoot red kites there doing ok now,,,cheap at £1.50 a pop,,,,,on no,,,they dont effect cattle,,,(oh and Im not against hunting,farming or meat eating)I actually love wildlife, and count myself lucky to see a live badger occassionally not dead on the roadside, or dug out of a den.

[delabodge]

whoops,,,sett,,,,,

[woody paul]

It's not only BTB that needs to be taken in to account when culling Badgers, they also kill bees, wasps,hedgehogs and ground nesting birds like pheasants, partridge and sky lark to name a few.

[Kenty]

I can sympathise with both sides, the farmers have been hit so hard over the years financially but you cannot just blame badgers for the spread of BTB. It can also be spread by other animals such as foxes, cats, domestic dogs & us walking around the countryside. A vaccine is available but it is cheaper to cull a species than vaccinate.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Perhaps a peek at this website then-

The British Deer Society - response to DEFRA

 

As a stalker you will probably be aware of BDS? I have seen many deer shot that were in very poor condition and on gralloch found their lungs covered with scarring.

 

TB infected cattle herds long before intensification and before cattle were moved long distances 'stressed' etc. Infact in 1934 the UK Gov believed 40% of cattle were infected. At that time pretty much all herds would have been small 'un-stressed' 'closed' affairs.

 

This issue needs to be dealt with, taking into account the facts, not the lies and inaccuracies peddled by the likes of Mr May, RSPCA, Badger Trust etc. Suggest you do some balanced research chum.

 

Wild boar controlling badgers and deer, wolves in SW England? Whatever next!!

 

Of course it needs to be dealt with.

 

But since there is obviously such split opinion (it's a pity you choose to label the main players in the anti cull campaign as liars - that's a fairly blinkered start point) I do not support the present cull proposal. There are far greater minds than mine arguing the case, both for and against. Not sure I'd take the position of calling those I don't currently agree with as liars even though I have a fairly low opinion of the NFU, post nicotinoid denial et al.

 

I acknowledge your point about TB in cattle pre-intensive farming. I'd hope you'd agree that there are improvements that could be made in animal husbandry - the regulatory requirements are already in place - and there are plenty of (respectable investigative journalist as well as whacko ALF-esque) video exposé of poor husbandry. There are also some ground breaking best practice farmers (I've worked for 1 large outfit) that set a very high bar.

 

There was no intended suggestion that wild boar are any kind of control measure. That's an example of the limitations of 'chat forums' compared to face to face chat/discussion/debate. The point I was hoping to get across was that if we cull the badger and it doesn't decrease the instance of bTB, the logic, which your reference to TB in dear seems to advance, is that after the badger has gone we'll have to choose the next species to eradicate in order to safe guard the cash crop.

 

It'll play out, we'll see how the stats are manipulated by either side at the end of the test cull. The 'career protesters', the anarchists, the great unwashed, the league against cruel sports etc will all be there protesting, that's what they do, but so will a great many of the rest of the population.

 

For the time being I'm staying anti-cull.

 

Its a long shot but I'm wondering if, under the 'Commando' login, it's Brian from DSC1 at Duchy I'm replying to??

[Dean Lofthouse]

It ok setting a high bar on best practice and animal husbandry but that cost money.

 

That extra cost cannot be passed on to the consumer due to imports.

 

How can buy lamb cheaper from New Zealand than we can from Wales ?

 

I also wonder how many of these whacko ALF LACS types actually buy these imports / cheap products which are fuelling the problem in the first place.

 

In my opinion, the demand for cheap products is the primary cause of most of the problems in agriculture