am i insured? please help!

[treequip]

In English law there in no such concept as a freelance employee. You are either an employee or a self employed subcontractor. I agree that this arrangement is set up to avoid tax. If you were to bring a claim in the employment tribunal the fact that you get paid by the client would not be determinative of b

 

Can you expand on that please.......

[Gentle Ben]

In English law there in no such concept as a freelance employee. You are either an employee or a self employed subcontractor. I agree that this arrangement is set up to avoid tax. If you were to bring a claim in the employment tribunal the fact that you get paid by the client would not be determinative of b

 

Your status. However it does not matter what a tribunal would say you ate. What matters is the wording of the insurance policy. It will contain defined terms (usually at the start) which will probably include a definition of an employee. I suspect that it will be based on your tax position and refer to paye. If you don't fall within the meaning of the definition you won't be covered. If you do fall within its meaning you will be.

 

You need to make sure that you are covered by both his public liability policy and his employer liability policy. What would you do if you suffered from an accident at work and ended up in a wheelchair or caused an accident that ended up in a member of the public being on a wheelchair?

 

If he won't cover you on his insurance I would look for another job or take out your own insurance. No job is worth he risks that you face without valid insurance.

[gensetsteve]

If your boss is avoiding vat I bet he has avoided the whole insurance thing as well. I would be keen to see if any insurance is in place and if you are covered on it.

[alex_m]

Sounds like your boss want to have all the perks of full time staff, but without the usual responsibilities of PAYE. (holiday pay, sick pay, ppe, climbing equipment etc)

If you are working for one person full time you cannot be self employed!

sounds very dodgy.

[easy-lift guy]

Why would you have too be vat reg if you did it right? That goes on turn over and if you have to be so be it, I am .

 

You said In you later post you want to do things right ? What your doing is far from being right.

 

I suggest you tell him you all work for him and he does all the invoicing and you all grow a pair!

 

Sound advise.

easy-lift guy

[18 stoner]

I am not sure that contacting his insurance company and spilling the beans is a good idea.

 

Mmmm, I see your point. It may sound like ratting his mate in, but lets face it, they aren't insured the way they are working so what's to loose?

[Gentle Ben]

Can you expand on that please.......

 

I pressed post by mistake. I have since added some more detail however the following may also help.

 

from an employment law perspective you can either be an employee (which gives you maximum protection including unfair dismissal rights) a worker (which gives you some of the rights that an employee gets including right to holiday pay) or a self employed contractor.

 

There is no such thing as a freelance employee. I agree that it sounds like the boss in this situation is trying to avoid tax. From the origional posters perspective that causes all sorts of issues however the insurance question is particulary serious as it probably has the potential highest consequences if something goes wrong.

 

The risks to your personal safety you guys take doing the type of work you do are bigger than in most jobs and whilst you all work hard to reduce those risks they do exist. A valid insurance policy is the safety net that protects you, your clients and the public in the event of an accident. The benefit to the boss of saving some cash on tax is not justified by the risk of working without insurance. I agree with the poster who suggested he man up and challenge his boss.

 

I am not a tax expert but if ultimately nobody is bothered about being an employee you could form a partnership and make sure that the insurance covered all of the partners. I think that each partner would be self employed and responsible for paying their own income tax.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

What he is doing is illegal, and no, you wouldn't have a pot to pizz in if you were the one receiving payment from the client.

 

And if HMRC does a forensic investigation (on your boss or you), this fairly rudimentary attempt to appear to be trading below the VAT threshold would very quickly be exposed (probably more of a problem for your boss than you.) Nothing to prevent HMRC reviewing trade forums for indications of who might be 'bending the rules', might be wise to seek private counsel on such delicate issues.

[treequip]

I pressed post by mistake. I have since added some more detail however the following may also help.

 

from an employment law perspective you can either be an employee (which gives you maximum protection including unfair dismissal rights) a worker (which gives you some of the rights that an employee gets including right to holiday pay) or a self employed contractor.

 

There is no such thing as a freelance employee. I agree that it sounds like the boss in this situation is trying to avoid tax. From the origional posters perspective that causes all sorts of issues however the insurance question is particulary serious as it probably has the potential highest consequences if something goes wrong.

 

The risks to your personal safety you guys take doing the type of work you do are bigger than in most jobs and whilst you all work hard to reduce those risks they do exist. A valid insurance policy is the safety net that protects you, your clients and the public in the event of an accident. The benefit to the boss of saving some cash on tax is not justified by the risk of working without insurance. I agree with the poster who suggested he man up and challenge his boss.

 

I am not a tax expert but if ultimately nobody is bothered about being an employee you could form a partnership and make sure that the insurance covered all of the partners. I think that each partner would be self employed and responsible for paying their own income tax.

 

 

This thread is about the insurance perspective and from that point of view there is a huge difference between freelance and sub contract.

 

A sub contractor takes a job or a portion of a job and is free to execute that work in a time frame and method agreed with the main contractor, he will usually be paid fixed price lump sum for his works, he brings his own equipment and materials.

 

A freelancer is a man employed by the day or week who works under the direction of his employer, the law regards him as an employee.

 

HMRC takes a dim view of companies using freelance workers on a permanent or semi permanent basis and I have first hand experience of HMRC checking up on companies.

[Gentle Ben]

Treequip: i agree that the post is about the insurance aspect - as i said in my original post whether the insurance covers him can be checked on the insurance policy (if one exists). The issue about employee status is separate albeit connected to the insurance question. the tax question is also separate issue - it is possible for HMRC and an employment tribunal to reach a different conclusion on employee status as they apply different tests.

 

From an employment law perspective there is no such thing as a freelance employee - the example you have given may be an employee (although it sounds more like a worker to me) and in the arb world you may describe them as a freelance employee however that does not mean that "english law" (which is the world that I work in) would consider them to be a free lance employee as a no such category exists.