Have to renew all NPTC units every 5 years

[scotspine1]

How attached do you recon they ought to be.

 

I doubt that they are that attached to any industry

 

you've just re-enforced my main point that a bureaucratic organisation like the HSE are over concerned with procedure at the expense of common sense

 

If they got that involed, an I for one am glad they aren't more interested it would cost a fortune, cheaper to do the refresher and not have someone looking ove your shoulder methinks

 

If they got that involved they would understand that the need for refresher training for serious, experience and professional individuals is so negligible it's insignificant.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

you've just re-enforced my main point that a bureaucratic organisation like the HSE are over concerned with procedure at the expense of common sense

 

 

 

If they got that involved they would understand that the need for refresher training for serious, experience and professional individuals is so negligible it's insignificant.

 

I have to say that's not been my experience of HSE, I've usually found them to be reasonable and pragmatic and willing to listen to industry. That's not to say they don't also concern themselves with procedure, but without that, whether written or not, there would no risk assessment / safe system of work / competence training etc.

 

Not sure about your second statement either but clearly we are, almost, at different ends of the spectrum here so we need some middle ground. That is to concentrate refresher / update / up-skilling training, ideally in combination, to those activities where major change in techniques / technologies / equipment etc. has occurred. This may not be via formalised refresher training, i.e. with an external training, although that's always easier to evidence / validate with certs etc., but by reading mags / ARBTALK , by attending workshops, and arb shows, by observing others...there's a who myriad of ways this happens...but it happens!

 

Still, onwards and upwards, and good to debate.

 

take care out there..

Paul

 

PS I do acknowledge that those who are highly skilled and experienced are much less likely to have an incident / accident and hence the need to evidence their 'improved knowledge and skills' is reduced....perhaps!

[treequip]

you've just re-enforced my main point that a bureaucratic organisation like the HSE are over concerned with procedure at the expense of common sense

 

 

 

If they got that involved they would understand that the need for refresher training for serious, experience and professional individuals is so negligible it's insignificant.

 

So lets assume that's true and the HSE knows that, how are they going to identify those people who fit your criteria and those who fall short? Perhaps they could have an assessment of competencies to decide?

[scotspine1]

I have to say that's not been my experience of HSE, I've usually found them to be reasonable and pragmatic and willing to listen to industry. That's not to say they don't also concern themselves with procedure, but without that, whether written or not, there would no risk assessment / safe system of work / competence training etc.

 

Not sure about your second statement either but clearly we are, almost, at different ends of the spectrum here so we need some middle ground. That is to concentrate refresher / update / up-skilling training, ideally in combination, to those activities where major change in techniques / technologies / equipment etc. has occurred. This may not be via formalised refresher training, i.e. with an external training, although that's always easier to evidence / validate with certs etc., but by reading mags / ARBTALK , by attending workshops, and arb shows, by observing others...there's a who myriad of ways this happens...but it happens!

 

Still, onwards and upwards, and good to debate.

 

take care out there..

Paul

 

PS I do acknowledge that those who are highly skilled and experienced are much less likely to have an incident / accident and hence the need to evidence their 'improved knowledge and skills' is reduced....perhaps!

 

So lets assume that's true and the HSE knows that, how are they going to identify those people who fit your criteria and those who fall short?Perhaps they could have an assessment of competencies to decide?

 

You guys are missing the point

 

Trainers/assessors in arb are finding there's easy money to be made from us hard working contractors.

 

They set themselves up as the authority on everything arb related when in actual fact a lot of them that have ceased working daily at the sharp end of industry - so how in the hell can they possibly be contributing to the evolution of climbing/felling/rigging advancements? They can't. It's people working on the job day in day out that make the real changes that make the industry safer or less labour intensive.

 

Refresher training is laughable, it's a con. I dont need reminded of how to do my job, it's what I do every day. I also keep up to date with any new developments in the industry, it's called personal responsibility.

 

Now if you're one of those people in life who always likes to be told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, why to do it and pay money to people to tell you these things then refresher training is most definitely for you.

[Scott Walker]

You guys are missing the point

 

Trainers/assessors in arb are finding there's easy money to be made from us hard working contractors.

 

They set themselves up as the authority on everything arb related when in actual fact a lot of them that have ceased working daily at the sharp end of industry - so how in the hell can they possibly be contributing to the evolution of climbing/felling/rigging advancements? They can't. It's people working on the job day in day out that make the real changes that make the industry safer or less labour intensive.

 

Refresher training is laughable, it's a con. I dont need reminded of how to do my job, it's what I do every day. I also keep up to date with any new developments in the industry, it's called personal responsibility.

 

Now if you're one of those people in life who always likes to be told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, why to do it and pay money to people to tell you these things then refresher training is most definitely for you.

 

Well said that man 100% agree.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[treequip]

You guys are missing the point

 

Trainers/assessors in arb are finding there's easy money to be made from us hard working contractors.

 

They set themselves up as the authority on everything arb related when in actual fact a lot of them that have ceased working daily at the sharp end of industry - so how in the hell can they possibly be contributing to the evolution of climbing/felling/rigging advancements? They can't. It's people working on the job day in day out that make the real changes that make the industry safer or less labour intensive.

 

Refresher training is laughable, it's a con. I dont need reminded of how to do my job, it's what I do every day. I also keep up to date with any new developments in the industry, it's called personal responsibility.

 

Now if you're one of those people in life who always likes to be told what to do, how to do it, when to do it, why to do it and pay money to people to tell you these things then refresher training is most definitely for you.

 

Continuing with missing the point, the training that people want are the NPTC competencies, most wont pay for anything else.

 

To get an acceptable pass rate you need to teach to the syllabus provided by the awarding body because that's what the learners will be assessed on.

 

Sooooo it would seem you are mistaken, the training providers aren't setting themselves up as an authority, they are providing training to a syllabus provided by others. That's also the system that teashes your kids operates.

[scotspine1]

Continuing with missing the point, the training that people want are the NPTC competencies, most wont pay for anything else.

 

To get an acceptable pass rate you need to teach to the syllabus provided by the awarding body because that's what the learners will be assessed on.

 

Sooooo it would seem you are mistaken, the training providers aren't setting themselves up as an authority, they are providing training to a syllabus provided by others. That's also the system that teashes your kids operates.

 

Like I said Treequip, you do the refresher course if that's what you need to do because you've forgotten all your initial training, feel that your own experience on the job counts for nothing, have picked up loads of bad habits and dont keep up to date with new developments, you go ahead and pay one of these training providers to refresh your memory of how to be a tree surgeon.

 

Let us know how it goes.

[treequip]

Like I said Treequip, you do the refresher course if that's what you need to do because you've forgotten all your initial training, feel that your own experience on the job counts for nothing, have picked up loads of bad habits and dont keep up to date with new developments, you go ahead and pay one of these training providers to refresh your memory of how to be a tree surgeon.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

As I said continuing to miss the point.

 

I wouldn't do a refresher for any of the reasons you cited but I bloody well would if the man handing out the contracts said I had to have it.

[Eddy_t]

As I said continuing to miss the point.

 

I wouldn't do a refresher for any of the reasons you cited but I bloody well would if the man handing out the contracts said I had to have it.

 

And that's the important part, the man with the money says refresh, you refresh if you want his money!

 

 

Sent using Arbtalk Mobile App

[scotspine1]

I wouldn't do a refresher for any of the reasons you cited but I bloody well would if the man handing out the contracts said I had to have it.

 

If the industry as a whole rejects the idea of refresher training then the man handing out the contracts wont ever ask for it in the first place!

 

AA Teccie should be representing contractors and telling the HSE to back off with the idea of mandatory refresher training. We already pay enough for all the various legislation/regs LOLER etc.

 

Treequip, if you took your argument to it's logical conclusion you'd want to see the introduction of an NPTC unit in backpack blower use. Then if the man handing out the contracts asked to see your Backpack blower cert you could say, 'here it is sir! yes sir!'.

 

That'll the be the next thing HSE will be looking for no doubt