How to crash an industry

[Pat Ferrett]

Maybe we should all go on driving refreshers every 5 years.

 

In 2010 1,857 people were killed and a total of 206.798 people where injured on the roads in the Uk.

 

Id rather be up a tree

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

:confused1:These two posts seem some what contradictory

 

I was thrown in at a VERY deep end, if i was in that position at that age knowing what i know now would I do different? NO I was trying to please the boss, keep my job and learn.

 

I DONT think its the way to learn! but it worked for me, minus a few scars, due to NOT having any PPE or training for the 1st 8 years of my youth and naive ways.

 

not a contradiction, stating why i dont need to do NPTC's I already have training for as I have used the training every day for 24 years!

[Andy Collins]

Are you saying you dont have the NPTCs, or are you saying you dont need the refreshers? Or both?

No-one doubts your skills accrued over many years, and they are going to be honed by day in day out practise in the field.

I stopped by the other day to see an old boy I know doing a bit of felling, just for a chat really. It was breakfast time, so we cracked open the flasks and sarnies and had a chat. I bid him farewell, and as I got up he asked me for a hand to get down a hung-up tree. Which I did in around a couple of minutes. He's been in the game all his life, started out in axes and crosscuts, now been in the woods for about 60ish years. He probably thinks he is as good as he was years back, because he doesnt have a refresher he doesnt realise he is slipping backwards, yet i have noticed in the last few years his cuts arent as precise, his fells arent so accurate, and he probably isnt as strong and as quick as in his youth. Just a thought.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Are you saying you dont have the NPTCs, or are you saying you dont need the refreshers? Or both?

No-one doubts your skills accrued over many years, and they are going to be honed by day in day out practise in the field.

I stopped by the other day to see an old boy I know doing a bit of felling, just for a chat really. It was breakfast time, so we cracked open the flasks and sarnies and had a chat. I bid him farewell, and as I got up he asked me for a hand to get down a hung-up tree. Which I did in around a couple of minutes. He's been in the game all his life, started out in axes and crosscuts, now been in the woods for about 60ish years. He probably thinks he is as good as he was years back, because he doesnt have a refresher he doesnt realise he is slipping backwards, yet i have noticed in the last few years his cuts arent as precise, his fells arent so accurate, and he probably isnt as strong and as quick as in his youth. Just a thought.

 

I said I didnt gain NPTC ill after 8 years in the game, and that i do not need refresher training.

 

as for the old boy, thats age, its a cruel fact of life, my mate ive worked with on and off for all my time is starting to show the same signs.

 

we all fluctuate throughout, we get a little compalcent take our skill for granted and in a moments slip we make a mistake, for me they happen about every five years and are small errors, the older I/we get the bigger those slips become! I believe they call it a "senior moment":lol:

 

refresher training wont stop that, as for learning new tricks and specs etc, im sure it is evident that i do research and read extensivley within my chosen field and in all its areas. I self study to a point beyond what could be expected of me. I am training all the time, maintaining \CPD at a high level, I cant waste my money on tickets I dont want nor need anymore, I got them earned them and am over qualified for refreshing.

 

is that really being cocky, or is it just stating my case that its unfair to force me or my employer to pay for training I dont need nor want when I train myself and read for myself? My money is limited, I forgo luxuries to pay thre prices charged for high profile training and seminars, and even books costing hundreds of pounds, its just not on to say I am no longer a profesional or adequatley qualified to use a chainsaw simply because \i wont refresh skills ive had and used and dedicated my life to.

 

I want to learn NEW, I want to progress, not go around in a five year ever decreasing circle of old hats till i disapear up my own rectum!

[likeitorlumpit]

I said I didnt gain NPTC ill after 8 years in the game, and that i do not need refresher training.

 

as for the old boy, thats age, its a cruel fact of life, my mate ive worked with on and off for all my time is starting to show the same signs.

 

we all fluctuate throughout, we get a little compalcent take our skill for granted and in a moments slip we make a mistake, for me they happen about every five years and are small errors, the older I/we get the bigger those slips become! I believe they call it a "senior moment":lol:

 

refresher training wont stop that, as for learning new tricks and specs etc, im sure it is evident that i do research and read extensivley within my chosen field and in all its areas. I self study to a point beyond what could be expected of me. I am training all the time, maintaining CPD at a high level, I cant waste my money on tickets I dont want nor need anymore, I got them earned them and am over qualified for refreshing.

 

is that really being cocky, or is it just stating my case that its unfair to force me or my employer to pay for training I dont need nor want when I train myself and read for myself? My money is limited, I forgo luxuries to pay thre prices charged for high profile training and seminars, and even books costing hundreds of pounds, its just not on to say I am no longer a profesional or adequatley qualified to use a chainsaw simply because i wont refresh skills ive had and used and dedicated my life to.

 

I want to learn NEW, I want to progress, not go around in a five year ever decreasing circle of old hats till i disapear up my own rectum!

 

Well done Hamma

I think you've made a very good case:thumbup1:

[bob]

Maybe we should all go on driving refreshers every 5 years.

 

In 2010 1,857 people were killed and a total of 206.798 people where injured on the roads in the Uk.

 

Id rather be up a tree

 

If you were an HGV driver you do

37hr,s training within a 5 yr period

ipaf needed

cpcs needed

first aid needed

hiab needed

and sure loads more if I could be bothered

 

Refresher training is not that bad it certainly helps With bad habits and come on you all have them

It also helps keep up with legislation changes

It just makes folk think about how and why they do things

Refresher traing also teaches new techniques not just to do what the MINIMAL was needed to get your cert of competence.

If you went on a refresher and did not learn anything then your either a Liar or too stuck in your ways or just as good as ME:thumbup:

 

Also why not add another unit to further your quals and skill level which is often seen as a refresher i.e CS41 cover most of 38 and 39 and 32 covers 31 ect

[Andy Collins]

I apol0gse Tony, in my bllnkered non-smoking state, I missed where you stated about the 8years, my bad. I do agree with you up to a point, but the rules are not made just for Tony, but for everyone in the industry, because it has been proven that many people will have an accident, and therefore need refreshers to keep them as safe as possible. It also helps to protect the employers, as they can prove that J Bloggs has been trained and refreshed according to industry guidelines, and therefore the employers have fullfilled their duties to ensure you are adequately trained.

How do you prove you have been in regular use of a saw since you originally passed your CS units, say 20odd years ago, Tony may have, but J Bloggs may have last used one in 1987 gales and not since, yet his tickets are equally valid, a bit silly dont you agree?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I apol0gse Tony, in my bllnkered non-smoking state, I missed where you stated about the 8years, my bad. I do agree with you up to a point, but the rules are not made just for Tony, but for everyone in the industry, because it has been proven that many people will have an accident, and therefore need refreshers to keep them as safe as possible. It also helps to protect the employers, as they can prove that J Bloggs has been trained and refreshed according to industry guidelines, and therefore the employers have fullfilled their duties to ensure you are adequately trained.

How do you prove you have been in regular use of a saw since you originally passed your CS units, say 20odd years ago, Tony may have, but J Bloggs may have last used one in 1987 gales and not since, yet his tickets are equally valid, a bit silly dont you agree?

 

 

I agree, but I have an emp;loyment record, as a lead climber in all those years bar 9 months as a photographer, but was still freelancing weekends, why should i be treated the same?

[Adam Bourne]

i'm sorry to say tony but you have to be treated the same because the industrie does not revolve around individuals like youself....its impossible to police something like this there for its stands for everyone....

[skyhuck]

i'm sorry to say tony but you have to be treated the same because the industrie does not revolve around individuals like youself....its impossible to police something like this there for its stands for everyone....

 

CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There are muppets in our industry, so we are all treated as muppets .

 

Fortunately I work for myself, so there is not the same duty of care as there is with an employee, so I can get away with the refreshers (until a client insists on it)

 

If I employed people using saws I'd get them refreshed, just to cover my ass, but I think its a money making scheme and wrong!!