When does a person become a "tree surgeon"?

[Albedo]

If you climb trees for a living you are a Tree surgeon.

 

If you lay bricks for a living you are a bricklayer.

 

Quality of the work done is a thing that takes a bit of time.

 

Can you identify the tree, its condition, justify works to be carried out,(or not to be carried out), predict from experience the effect of proposed works on the tree, related trees and built structures? Then give an accurate idea of how long the work will take, how many people required and equipment needed, in order to price the work accurately.

 

Then having established any necessary permissions, can you carry out the above to a standard, that your peers, thats everyone on here, will agree is an acceptable standard, and of course your client? Also within your quoted price, and without breaking anything expensive or hurting anyone.

 

If so --- you are still a tree surgeon

[Mark Cattell]

When they decide they don't want to make the effort to be Arborist....

[Mark Cattell]

your not certified to prune or dimantle by rigging ...................................................................................................................... !

 

 

 

 

 

that's an opinion through reading the AFAG guidane and NPTC assesment notes

 

Rigging and pruning certs, Very subjective opinion and are still considered optional, if you have ben trained and mentored by a skilled craftman who has given you on the job training then probably worth more than a few days in the wood with a non-working arb trainer....

 

I have both tickets by the way.....

 

NPTC have the monopoly on training and the continual invention of more tickets is this the way we want to go!!!!!!!

 

I'm yet to see any correlation between reduced accidents linked with NPTC certified staff....... beyond the bare essentials....

[Mark Cattell]

Job description

Arboriculturists cultivate and manage trees, hedgerows and shrubs. The work is undertaken in both rural and urban settings and includes all aspects of felling, preserving, planting and protecting trees, sometimes using heavy equipment. They also provide information and advice on specific tree-related issues. There is an increasing focus on maintaining a safe relationship between the trees, their immediate environment, and the general public. Arboriculturists who do only hands-on tree and shrub maintenance may be called arborists.

 

Arboriculturists usually specialise in a particular area of work, such as tree climbing and maintenance, tree preservation and conservation, parks and gardens, planning, or tree survey and inspection. Advances in tree biology, equipment and techniques have resulted in fundamental changes to traditional tree work practices, and arboriculture has moved away from the ‘tree surgery’ approach to a ‘tree care’ approach.

 

Typical work activities

Typical work activities vary between specific areas of arboriculture.

 

An arborist works at a practical level and visits a range of sites in order to:

 

plant trees and shrubs;

undertake thinning and tree surgery using a range of equipment;

undertake groundwork using a chainsaw and a chipper.

An arboriculturist may be involved in the same activities as an arborist, but works at a supervisory/managerial level and will also be involved in:

 

selecting plants and designing landscaping schemes;

applying knowledge of tree biology for effective tree maintenance;

following and negotiating clients' requirements;

managing tree care and tree planting contracts;

carrying out tree inspections and surveys;

writing reports for engineers, solicitors, mortgage and insurance companies, providing information relating to trees, for example if a tree root system is damaging or likely to damage a building or cause subsidence;

reviewing and responding to planning applications;

providing training for junior colleagues and volunteers;

conducting development site surveys and giving pre-planning advice on topics such as the effect a proposed development may have on trees in the area, and how best to retain them and incorporate them into the finished project.

In urban areas, the work involves improving the relationship between the environment and urban development through activities such as:

 

reclaiming abandoned industrial sites;

pruning tree growth away from electrical cables and public access routes;

developing practical solutions to environmental issues;

advising on trees for development sites.

 

Reference- (prospects, the UKs official graduate careers advice website)

 

A very fine description, does not cover Tree Surgeon though....

[john dawson]

its simple, any idiot can buy a van n saws, and call themselves a tree surgeon.

 

i like to be considered as an arborist, i might not be the best arborist, but im trying to get there,

 

a tree surgeon just doesnt care, they just want the kudos of "bein ard", just tell them they are doin it wrong and wait 4 the sparks to fly!!

 

my boss once said im a rubbish tree surgeon, for which im actualy quite proud!!

 

MUPPETTS!!!!!!!

[skyhuck]

I'm a tree man or a climber.

 

All this fuss about "words".

 

Surely your not an arborist on the days you fell a healthy tree just because the owner wants you too.

 

I maybe an arborist some days, when I dead wood or do other work that does little harm to tree and very occasionally benefits the tree.

 

But mostly I damage trees or remove them for the benefit of the client, the skill is in limiting the damage and knowing how much the tree can take.

 

But I have no interest in what I'm called or what my "peers" think of me.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

A very fine description, does not cover Tree Surgeon though....

 

Maybe thats because it is no longer considered a correct term, Arborist is appropriate and I dont find myself explaining it to folk as much as I used to.

 

I used to consider myself a tree surgeon, 15 years ago I like to think I have moved on.

 

I guess at the begining your an aprentice or trainee, It takes about five years for most to be considered a true pro, but thats the same for any skilled craft.

[Albedo]

I'm a tree man or a climber.

 

But I have no interest in what I'm called or what my "peers" think of me.

 

I'm sure you know this skyhuck and your comment I've quoted will stand anyway, but just to clarify for everybody what I meant by “Peer Review” as it is meant as a compliment to everybody on the forum. It means that I value the opinion of other tree surgeons

 

If a scientist comes up with some new science, he writes it up and gets it published in a scientific journal. This is the process of “peer review”, as then other scientists working in the same field can say if they agree or not with his science, or duplicate and verify the experiments behind it. If new science is not published and reviewed in this way, it gets no support or credence.

 

So when Hama for example, published photos of his reductions on here, he was putting his work up for “peer review” , and we reviewed it and said it was good, bad, etc

 

The comment I made about ‘carrying out work that your peers agree is an acceptable standard’. Is saying that for example:

 

If I post a picture or an idea on here and everyone says its crap, I would have to think about that, as the people saying its crap are people that do what I do (my peers), not some teacher or assessor who last touched a tree 20 yrs ago.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I'm sure you know this skyhuck and your comment I've quoted will stand anyway, but just to clarify for everybody what I meant by “Peer Review” as it is meant as a compliment to everybody on the forum. It means that I value the opinion of other tree surgeons

 

If a scientist comes up with some new science, he writes it up and gets it published in a scientific journal. This is the process of “peer review”, as then other scientists working in the same field can say if they agree or not with his science, or duplicate and verify the experiments behind it. If new science is not published and reviewed in this way, it gets no support or credence.

 

So when Hama for example, published photos of his reductions on here, he was putting his work up for “peer review” , and we reviewed it and said it was good, bad, etc

 

The comment I made about ‘carrying out work that your peers agree is an acceptable standard’. Is saying that for example:

 

If I post a picture or an idea on here and everyone says its crap, I would have to think about that, as the people saying its crap are people that do what I do (my peers), not some teacher or assessor who last touched a tree 20 yrs ago.

 

I think that the last piece of your statement needs a bit of a rethink maybe?

 

Surely those teachers/assesors/peers who HAVE touched trees and for some time are in a legitimate position to be having a Peer opinion as apposed to those "peers" who have NEVER had any experiance or whos only experiance was a few fruit trees at collage.

 

I would hate to think that 10 years from now when I produce documents etc for "peer review" that those still at the frontline or the cutting edge (literaly) would disrespect the value i bring to the industry in my then new role?

[Albedo]

Yes that last bit was a bit throw away statementish. I accept your peer reviewingness, and consider my statement amended accordingly:biggrin:

 

 

I