zig zag failure?

[Rupe]

Yes, we mustn't forget that the guy who fell managed to generate @4kn somehow!

 

Am I right in saying he was under instruction at the time? On a training course?

 

I'd say there are questions to be answered there as well.

[Marc]

At this point it is a product that was used incorrectly, as far as pwe know Petzl are working on something to stop it from being used incorrectly.

As far as money back and not fit for perpose, I will find out more tomorrow.

I do believe Petzl have acted in a quick and appropriate manner so far over this. We looked today and there are loads of other products on the market that if used in the wrong way or wrong cofigeration could lead to a possible failure.

 

We are chasing for answers, and as soon an we hear we will let you know.

 

No offence jonsie but loads of other products that can cause accidents due to it being used as stated and failing is a wild claim! Sounds more like a bit of trying to cover your ass. I,m fairly knowledgeable about what kit is out there and its limitations and flaws, what you saying is true in a sense but this product was being used as the manual suggested... It just orientated itself into a position Petzl had not foreseen.

[Joe Loggs]

Being 9 stone what sort of fall would I need to generate 4kn?

 

 

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[raker]

Been quite happily using mine today- until i stumbled across this thread- should the dealers not be contacting people who have purchased the zig zag?- i know of several climbers who have them and are not on A.T

 

Funnily enough, i had a letter in the post today.Bit late tbh.

[geoff]

No offence jonsie but loads of other products that can cause accidents due to it being used as stated and failing is a wild claim! Sounds more like a bit of trying to cover your ass. I,m fairly knowledgeable about what kit is out there and its limitations and flaws, what you saying is true in a sense but this product was being used as the manual suggested... It just orientated itself into a position Petzl had not foreseen.

 

Any kit can fail if used in the wrong configuration,some very quickly,some over time,I dont think for one second that Jonsie is 'covering his ass',he would be doing his best as a good dealer to inform us of what the latest advise is,simple fact is do not use this bit of kit,await a response from the manufacturer to filter down,& put the word out there to all climbers,a high percentage dont even know about Arbtalk,that is our job to do,not start slinging mud at a dealer.

[Marc]

Any kit can fail if used in the wrong configuration,some very quickly,some over time,I dont think for one second that Jonsie is 'covering his ass',he would be doing his best as a good dealer to inform us of what the latest advise is,simple fact is do not use this bit of kit,await a response from the manufacturer to filter down,& put the word out there to all climbers,a high percentage dont even know about Arbtalk,that is our job to do,not start slinging mud at a dealer.

 

Sorry if my comments came across as harsh I'm glad jonsie has taken the time to reply to this thread on more than one occasion and never meant it to come across like that. I still stand by my comments that this is a fairly unique situation not typical among the current crop of hardware, if someone wants to enlighten me then please do.

[dexta]

At this point it is a product that was used incorrectly, as far as pwe know Petzl are working on something to stop it from being used incorrectly.

As far as money back and not fit for perpose, I will find out more tomorrow.

I do believe Petzl have acted in a quick and appropriate manner so far over this. We looked today and there are loads of other products on the market that if used in the wrong way or wrong cofigeration could lead to a possible failure.

 

We are chasing for answers, and as soon an we hear we will let you know.

 

Thanks to you for keeping us up to speed

[Grais]

Sorry but I dont call cross loading a carabiner and suddenly stopping using it the wrong way.

I call that regular working enviroment.

They failed to test for that eventuality.

They made a mistake.

There was no USE THIS WITH CAUTION take care to NEVER CROSS LOAD A CARABINER in this particlaur configuaration, with a little picture explaining the warning of course, now if there was such a warning, and a person did that, that would be using it incorrectly. They would have failed to follow instructions, failed to follow a warning.

How did this climber fail to use the ZigZag as instructed. I looked over the original PDF and failed to see any specific warning about cross loading.

Perhaps I missed it ? Wouldnt be the first time, apologies if I did.

I know cross loading is never advisable, but our carabiners are as strong as they are, for a reason, so that if they do get cross loaded we are still safe.

Bottom line.

Yes our system may be screwed up, and we may be hanging half upside down, but a vital PPE connection did not fail because we have the safeguard built in.

I know Jonsie is probably just repeating what Petzl has stated, but that is lawyer speak, the reality is reality.

I cannot speak for the rest of you guys and gals, but when I climb trees, when I risk my life, I like to deal in absolutes.

Something works and will continue to work, or it doesnt, no half measures at 60 ft.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Grais

[hazzygawa]

Been quite happily using mine today- until i stumbled across this thread- should the dealers not be contacting people who have purchased the zig zag?- i know of several climbers who have them and are not on A.T

 

You know several climbers who are not on AT.

Have them shot at Dawn.

[Johny Walker]

You know several climbers who are not on AT.

Have them shot at Dawn.

 

if ther zz fails they may not need shooting