Milling oak for fence posts

[agg221]

I was thinking use Jacksons softwood posts- they last ages especially the big stuff. I've put in posts that are 30 years old now and still fine.

 

Today's Jakcure is copper carbonate/boric acid/propiconazole

 

Health and Safety Executive - Biocides Database - HSE COPR registered products

 

It's about the best that is currently on the market and I certainly wouldn't knock it, but it is unlikely to last as long as your 30yr old posts, which would almost certainly have been treated with CCA, which was withdrawn (for very good reasons) in December 1999. The reason it is likely to be less durable is that the arsenate chemically bonded very securely to the wood, so it didn't leach. Boric acid will leach and proiconazole will degrade with time. The copper carbonate is also slightly soluble, and there are some fungi which are not affected by copper salts (they are affected by chromium or zinc).

 

I certainly wouldn't dispute the guarantee period being achieved - but to the best of my understanding it's based on accelerated testing at the moment, rather than achieved lifetimes.

 

Alec

[Goaty]

I would mill straight away - it won't season at all quickly in the round or with the bark on (could be decades). You want to remove all the sapwood as it doesn't last. It could be quite a wide band as in several inches, no need to remove it by hand or anything, just reckon on milling it off when you're working out your sizes. The alternative if you're not in a rush is to fell the tree and leave it lying on the ground where it falls for a year or two, after which the sapwood will have rotted away.

 

Use them straight away or dry them for a bit - your choice. They will move around a bit as they dry, but this isn't precision stuff. Just watch whether the grain spirals as if it does they will twist with it, which could be a pain on close fitting gates.

 

You could use the sweet chestnut, but at that size there's a risk of ring shake, so you may get nothing out of it. Sweet chestnut has the advantage of only about 3mm of sapwood and fairly thin bark so very little waste. It's about equally durable.

 

Alec

 

Agree with all the above, the secret to higher percentage heartwood is trees managed for timber.

How it works is at one extreme, a solitary tree stands in a field, it will be well clothed with branches and foliage, to feed this lot it needs a larger band of sapwood, whereas trees grown close together, are only green at the top were they try to grow and out compete each other these trees only have a narrow band of sapwood and have higher heartwood conversion. so thinings may yield more per m3 than a mighty old tree. Hope this makes sense.

[Stereo]

One of my next plans is to plant seperate oak and SC coppices in order to provide a supply of timber for fencing / gates etc. over the next decades. I might get one harvest from the oak before I throw a seven but I think we are going the have to think more like we used to in the future. Unfortunately we have lost a couple generations of coppice management so there is little more than big trees and firewood to harvest on our farm.

 

By the way, anyone know if a big old SC will coppice once felled? Or won't it take at that age. I've got some big ashes and sycs which have come back strongly after felling.

[alex_w]

Hi,

 

I used a mobile sawmiller to mill our sweet chestnut coppice into 4x3" posts as it was cheaper than buying softwood stakes. We had trunks 6-18" diameter. Some had ring shake, some were fine. It is still worth milling the ones with shake as some were fine and some just had an edge missing.

In the end with the other ash, sycamore, yew oak etc on estate we bought a small woodmizer. we can then cut all the nice hardwoods to dry, but also posts, chestnut gravel boards, gate posts etc.

 

A mobile sawmiller may set you back 300-350 for a day, which is only the cost of 100 DECENT guaranteed stakes once vat and delivery has been paid, so worth cutting your own if you can get the trees to the yard and load him.

[Big Beech]

we cut and split our own SC and de bark them. these are used for rustic post n rail. therefore unless they are large trees i would just split the posts rustic with wedges unless they have to be dimensionised. they will also last for ages. do not use concrete thogh to fix at that will speed up the rotting of any post except concrete!

for an extra edge, stakes can also be burnt on the ends for added permanace.

 

s

[Pat Ferrett]

we cut and split our own SC and de bark them. these are used for rustic post n rail. therefore unless they are large trees i would just split the posts rustic with wedges unless they have to be dimensionised. they will also last for ages. do not use concrete thogh to fix at that will speed up the rotting of any post except concrete!

for an extra edge, stakes can also be burnt on the ends for added permanace.

 

s

 

My old man used to point the sc posts with a chainsaw and start a fire with them to burn the ends of the point , he said the same as you that it stopped them rotting

[Goaty]

 

By the way, anyone know if a big old SC will coppice once felled? Or won't it take at that age. I've got some big ashes and sycs which have come back strongly after felling.

 

Try one but I reckon they will sucker up well.

[digga]

have milled chestnut gate posts with an allaskan mill put cleated plates ontop to limit the chance of them poping open sweet chestnut has to be cut during the autum if you want it to last as long as possible summer cut chestnut doesnt last as long . replaced allot of fences in the past that prove this point but it will still outlast the softwood posts you get today. been coppicing over 20 years nowand fencing about 18years was lucky enough to be taught the right way by some old guys that had been in it all there life and there fathers before them they definatly knew what they was on about . charring the bottoms of the posts does work but dont get carried away and take them to far .

as for concreting in posts big mistake allot of people tend to make is putting concrete at the bottom of the hole to may as well put the post in a bucket as the water cant escape

[difflock]

There was a recent thread on the BFF re rotting posts/inadequate treatment.

I was surprised that Cresote is back, with certain restrictions stipulations.

Softwood posts here in NI have been a proper farce since well before the least worst Environmentally friendly treatment was phased out in 1999.

Probably since about the mid 80's shitty Sitka with 10/13mm growth rings , treated while still wringing with sap, NOT vacced , rinsed with treatment to smell like they were treated.

Good for 5 years max in peaty soils.

An absolute disgrace especially when used in Government grant aided fences.

cheers

I bought a pallet of Russian spruce 100mm pencil posts, years ago, but they are too good to use, I just admire them sitting in the corner of the shed

m

[Woodworks]

I looked into getting some fencing posts a while back. I found a place in Wales selling creosote pressure treated posts. I did not get them as we did not need many and delivery was too much. Ended up buying some creosote from the local farm supply's.

 

Just had a quick google and there a few places selling creosote pressure treated posts now.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Woodworks